[TRANSCRIPT] The Top Three Qualities Warren Buffett Looks for When Hiring Attorneys, Managers, and Others-and Why This Is All You Need to Know to Hire, Get Hired, and Be a Great Employee

Today, I'm going to talk about the three qualities that Warren Buffett looks for when he's hiring people. I think this is an interesting topic, and I did some research on how he hires people.

These are three qualities that I often discuss with law firms, along with my own recommendations for hiring. I believe you'll enjoy this presentation. Afterward, I'll take questions, and you can ask about this topic or anything else you have questions about.

I think this will be interesting. We recently posted a podcast about it, and I've also heard this quote from other people. I watched a presentation by Michael Eisner and Bob Iger, where Eisner mentioned picking this up from his former boss.

He said that you're looking for three things: intelligence, energy, and integrity. If they don't have the last one, don't even bother with the first two. I tell everyone here that they have the intelligence and energy, or they wouldn't be here, but integrity is up to you.

You weren't born with it. You can't learn it in school. I really liked that quote. When I graduated from law school, our speaker was Jesse Jackson, and his son was in my class. His entire talk was about trust. He kept asking, "Can you be trusted?" The best people, it comes down to whether or not you believe you can trust them. In my life, I've noticed that there are people I trust and people I don't.

Depending on the circles you travel in, you may encounter more people you can or can't trust. You definitely have to be careful. When I think about the attorneys I've encountered who have done the best, they had all three qualities. Those who failed were usually missing at least one. Trust is very interesting, and I'll talk more about it today.

This isn't necessarily a talk about morals, but when I don't trust someone, I cut them off and don't have anything to do with them anymore. It doesn't mean I don't talk to them, but I don't trust them with information or let them get close. I know they're dangerous people. People often let slip things that show they can't be trusted, or they'll say everyone's out for themselves. When you see that people can't be trusted, it's very dangerous, and you have to be careful. Law firms, companies, bosses, and sometimes your peers can't be trusted. You have to be careful.

As an attorney, you really need to have all three of those qualities. Some are more important than others. The first one is intelligence. Being an attorney requires a lot of intelligence, and intelligence can mean different things. It could mean the ability to learn over time or solve complex problems. It doesn't necessarily mean where you went to law school or having the highest IQ. However, the practice of law has a lot of elitism. If you want to work in the highest-paying law firms with the largest clients, they will generally look for book intelligence.

They'll be concerned about how well you did in school, especially when you're recently out. They want you to look good on paper and have natural intelligence associated with a high IQ, which is the ability to figure out complex problems and come up with solutions.

I had two very interesting experiences with very smart attorneys I hired. One went to law school at 16 and graduated at 19, attended Berkeley, and got into Harvard. Another was third in his class. These extremely intelligent attorneys could solve problems and come up with solutions very quickly. Having people like that around can make a huge difference. They were exceptional attorneys but had other issues.

Intelligence is important, but you have to apply it correctly and make good decisions with the information you get. The best attorneys do this well and achieve the highest salaries and success throughout their careers. None of this has to be negative. It shows you that you have to play on a field where you'll do well. If an attorney who isn't super intelligent is thrown in with very intelligent attorneys, they don't stand a chance. They won't move fast enough and will lose.

If you've ever seen an extremely intelligent attorney against one who isn't, it's not good. There are many practice areas where you don't need to be super intelligent. Almost all practice areas have people who don't need to be extremely intelligent. However, the best law firms look for that skill and understanding level.

I was once represented by an average attorney in a case before the court of appeals. The opposing attorney was so intelligent that they were two steps ahead of the appellate judges and my attorney. They outthought and out-reasoned everyone. We had a better case, in my opinion, but their arguments were so good that I didn't think I had any reason to win. Intelligence is crucial in law. You have to find a practice area that suits your smarts and interests, where you're excited to learn more over time.

Some practice areas don't require a lot of book smarts but other types of intelligence. Personal injury requires the ability to realize when someone was hurt, proving damages, and so forth. Personal injury attorneys can make emotional and persuasive arguments. Family law attorneys are exceptional. Most didn't go to the best law schools, which is fine. They use skills other than raw intelligence. They tap into emotional arguments, intimidate people, and get their clients enthusiastic. Different skills are required.

When law firms hire attorneys without the right firepower, those attorneys will quickly be run over by partners, associates, and clients. You have to realize what your skill is. It might be working in the largest law firms with the most intelligent attorneys, or it might be a different type of skill.

If you're hiring an attorney and they lack intelligence, they will often be defeated by the other side. I had an attorney who went to a non-accredited school. He went to City Hall to look up the code for a traffic case instead of using a computer. That's not smart.

Two super intelligent attorneys I encountered graduated from top 10 law schools at a very young age but struggled to get hired. Both worked on major cases and made complex arguments without much briefing, understanding solutions very quickly. Intelligence is important. You have to know where you fit in. Competing against the most intelligent attorneys is like a club basketball player trying to play with NBA stars. It doesn't make sense to do something where you'll almost always lose. You have to decide what's best for you.

I heard a guy with a book distributed in every Walmart say he's never been the smartest but worked much harder than everyone else. Hard work works, but not if you're in the wrong pond. Competing at a level where you're not ready doesn't make sense. You'll be better working with attorneys in a practice area that matches your skills and intelligence.

The most challenging practice areas and largest firms require the highest intelligence. Practice areas that aren't consumer-facing, like corporate, commercial litigation, patent prosecution, bankruptcy for companies, tax for companies, or antitrust, require more intelligence. Consumer-facing practice areas like personal injury, labor and employment, insurance defense, immigration, consumer litigation, consumer bankruptcy, and criminal law require different skills.

People good at corporate probably wouldn't be good at criminal law and vice versa. These practice areas attract different personalities and skills. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're interested in criminal law but think you should be a corporate attorney, it may not make sense. Every time the economy does well, litigators want to move into corporate, but most went into litigation because they liked writing, reading, and fighting. Switching to corporate can be harmful because it's a different thought pattern.

Different personalities match different practice areas. There are personal injury attorneys who make more money than almost all law firm attorneys. Immigration attorneys can bring in millions of dollars with national operations. You don't need to work in a big firm to be successful.

Consumer-facing practice areas involve intangible skills like intimidation, playing games, making emotional arguments, persistence, following rules, and making good presentations. These skills are more valuable in consumer-facing areas than in corporate areas where personality is less important.

Intelligence is important, but you have to decide what's best for you. Many attorneys in New York City went to Yale Law School and practice family law. In Los Angeles, some practice family law and went to Stanford and Harvard Law School. You have to find a practice area that makes you happy and where your intelligence and skills are utilized.

The second quality is energy. Tony Robbins said that he's selling ideas and energy. I'm selling energy by talking to you about something I'm excited about. You need to go into a practice area that gives you energy. Many attorneys go through life doing things that don't give them energy, which is sad. You need to do work that gives you energy. Two extremely intelligent attorneys who worked for me were brilliant but had no energy. One wanted to use his intelligence for a limited number of hours a day and then play video games.

That's one of the reasons he never wanted to work in a major law firm. He knew he would have been a terrible fit. So he took a job with me and now he's a personal injury attorney, which is probably even better for him. But there's really a prejudice in the market for younger attorneys.

The reason there's a preference for them is their enthusiasm and energy. They're excited, believe in the future, want to work hard, impress people, and get ahead. They want to learn. All these things are very valuable.

I was once investigated by the Department of Justice in Washington, DC, in a formal investigation because we had ads where law firms were saying they wanted one to five years of experience. For some reason, the government thought I had something to do with this. I think someone complained, and they were just going through the motions. But that's how law firms are.

They want people with one to five years of experience. I don't set these rules, and sometimes it's more than that because of the market. They might be interested in corporate attorneys with 10+ years of experience, but generally, they want people with one to five years because of their enthusiasm and energy.

Just look at the energy that most young attorneys have compared to older attorneys. As they get older, they get cynical. They want to go in-house, they're less focused, and they've given up. It's not fun. The older an attorney gets, the harder it is for them to be marketable unless they're able to get a lot of business.

Younger attorneys are often willing to work hard. They don't have families to get home to, they have a lot of passion, and at some point, they may lose this energy and become less marketable. It's something to think about.

Attorneys sell their intelligence, energy, enthusiasm, and ability to get things done and try to get results.

Several years ago, maybe five or six, I called UCLA Law School to interview some law students because I wanted to hire new attorneys.

Some of the people I was interviewing had great grades and seemed like they would be awesome additions. I called them in for interviews, but they hadn't gotten jobs yet. When I interviewed them, all of them lacked energy. They were just duds, with no handshake, looking tired. Having that energy is crucial for the most successful attorneys. If they don't have it, it's not good.

Look around at the attorneys doing the best. Most have a lot of energy. They get up early, work late, and work weekends. They prioritize their body and health. These are important characteristics. You need to have energy.

One of my personal experiences is when I started practicing law, it was all I could do to get to the office by nine or nine-thirty. But I liked it so much that I would find myself getting up unprovoked at four-thirty or five and starting work. I'd never done that with anything before. If you like something and have energy, that's great. You should like what you do and have energy.

Think about the energy an attorney needs and what you'd expect if you were hiring one. You'd want someone who believes in you and will do their best to get things done. You wouldn't want someone who doesn't try their hardest, doesn't put in the extra time when necessary, or cuts corners.

Energy is very important. I prioritize keeping my energy up in my career and life. I'll tell you about that in a moment. But just keeping your energy up is crucial. Certain people have natural energy, and you can feel it when they walk into a room. If you want to be hired and get ahead in your career, you need a lot of energy, enthusiasm, and drive regardless of where you're working. It's your responsibility to keep your energy up.

No one in most law firms will tell you to avoid drinking or abusing drugs or other substances. Those things slow people down. If you drink too much alcohol or have an addictive personality and take drugs, it backfires. I've known superstars at major firms who did things like smoke crystal meth in the bathroom. It catches up with you. Drugs slow you down, and people get prescription drugs that make them less effective.

There's nothing wrong with drinking or taking prescription drugs, but you have to be careful about anything that dulls you too much. You need to exercise. Almost all the best attorneys I know who are good at bringing in business always exercised, even when busy. I remember staying at a hotel in Palm Springs where successful attorneys were exercising early in the morning.

You need to exercise and take care of yourself. Meditation is important. Almost every spiritual discipline, whether Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or Christianity, has forms of meditation. You need to take time off and have days when you don't check your email. Watching your weight and avoiding unhealthy foods can make a huge difference. These things help people maintain their energy.

Tony Robbins, for example, focuses on what he puts in his body, eating live food, avoiding unhealthy food. Each of these things, like eliminating drinking and drugs, exercise, meditation, taking time off, watching your weight, and eating healthy foods, can make a huge difference.

Sleep is another major one. I go to bed at eight o'clock every night and monitor my sleep with a watch and a sleep app. If you're not getting enough sleep, you won't be as effective or have enough energy. Monitor your sleep because it's crucial for effectiveness and energy.

Socializing with people outside of work, having close family relationships, and being around supportive people are important. These things make you healthy. Unfortunately, people don't do them enough or do too much. This isn't a guide to health and fitness, but these are important because successful people do them.

There is a correlation between these activities and success. Some attorneys are so driven they don't get enough sleep or meditate. But for the most part, they do all these things. Not doing one of them, like not socializing or forming close family relationships, can hurt you.

These rules focus on making yourself happy and having energy. If you have energy, you'll be successful. Warren Buffett hires people with energy because they're likely doing these things well.

If you want to be weaker, less promotable, and worse, don't do these things or do too little or too much of them. Any one of these activities can change your life. Sleep, socializing, avoiding drugs and drinking, exercise, meditation, taking time off, watching your weight, and eating healthy foods can change your life.

I know many attorneys who have died young, some in their forties, due to heart attacks and other health issues. It's sad because they did things that detracted from their energy. They may have been driven, but they did things that depleted their energy. You need energy.

What you're selling as an attorney is your energy. Your billable hours show where you're putting your energy. The size and number of clients you have show your energy. Maintain your energy to help people effectively.

I've met attorneys in their eighties with a lot of energy. Leading politicians and many attorneys are in their seventies and eighties. It's not just age; it's about understanding how to take care of yourself and being enthusiastic about what you're doing.

Successful people take care of their minds and bodies, and they're enthusiastic about their work. If you love what you do, you'll get up each day and be enthusiastic. If you don't like what you're doing, you won't have energy. Be interested in your work and enthusiastic about it.

If you show up without energy, you'll lose the fight. I remember interviewing with a big firm in New York after working at my second law firm for three years. A very famous attorney told me I didn't seem like I had a lot of energy for it. He was right. I wasn't as interested anymore. Intelligence matters, but without energy, it rarely works.

Being in the right practice area, location, and environment where you believe you can succeed long-term is crucial for keeping your energy up. I really liked practicing law, especially litigation, but it was stressful for me. I respect attorneys because they work very hard, probably much harder than necessary. You'll be criticized by other attorneys and peers in your law firm. You don't know who your friends are.

You're going to lose and feel tapped. It's difficult. Not only are you expected to work, but you're also expected to bring in business, and your future is often uncertain. The longer you do it, the more stressful it becomes, especially as a partner.

You need to figure out how to make all this into something good. The smartest people take all this and think it's incredible. They're getting great experience, being criticized, becoming better at what they're doing. They see learning from losing as good news because they know what not to do next time.

That's called cognitive behavioral thinking, where you talk to yourself in a way that makes you stronger. Every job is about energy. When attorneys come to me looking for a job without energy, I know they're unlikely to get hired.

Sometimes I talk to people who lack enthusiasm, and I know they won't get hired. Other times, the enthusiasm is palpable, and they're excited.

I told a story earlier about a recent UCLA graduate who didn't have any energy. You need a lot of energy and excitement. Talk to yourself in a way that gives you energy.

Understand the importance of energy. The highest-performing attorneys have a lot of energy and do whatever they can to get it.

I was at a party a couple of years ago, talking to an attorney who had tried a case with one of the most well-known attorneys in the country. They were having breakfast before the trial, and the attorney opened a plastic pill organizer. He asked about his energy level and pointed at each pill, saying which was best if he hadn't had enough sleep, if he needed to be sharper, and so on.

My friend thought it was funny but understood the importance of energy. Dave Asprey, known for biohacking, promotes maintaining peak energy with Bulletproof coffee, vitamins, and a prescription stimulant.

I don't recommend stimulants because they often lead to early death. I've known many attorneys who died in their thirties and forties, often due to cancer. Be careful.

Anthony Robbins doesn't drink coffee. I drink coffee, but I'm not perfect in terms of health. Robbins can stand on stage for 18 hours, jump up and down, talk without using the bathroom or drinking. It's impressive. He believes in energy, and many successful people do.

If your job isn't empowering you, address it. Lack of energy can be a sign of something serious. You might have a bad marriage, bad relationships, unresolved psychological issues, or a job you don't like. Fix them and get your energy back because energy is crucial.

Surrounding yourself with positive people is important. I try to surround myself with positive people, take time every day to help others, have nice interactions, and appreciate people. Exercise, yoga, meditation, avoiding alcohol, eating raw food, and being a vegetarian help me maintain energy. Taking time off work is important too. I take at least a week off every three or four months.

My point is that you need to figure out how to get energy because things that sap it away won't give you a long and healthy life. You should be in a practice area, with people or in an organization, where you feel energized. It's important.

Energy is part of the game. Practicing law in a way that gives you energy and not just drains you is important. Doing things you like energizes you.

This final quality is integrity. Many attorneys lack integrity. I've dealt with many who don't have it. A recent conversation with a bookkeeper made me realize that many bookkeepers end up stealing because the temptation is high. For example, a bookkeeper might need $500 to pay an expense, so they take it from the account, planning to pay it back. But then they get deeper into it, and it spirals out of control.

Integrity in billing is crucial in the legal environment. Accurate billing is an integrity issue. If you're doing something without integrity, you'll subconsciously make it up in other ways, like padding hours or overworking a case. Many attorneys pad their hours, finding endless reasons to keep billing.

I've seen attorneys write down false hours to generate more billable hours. It's common, but not right. Honesty is the best policy. If clients trust you, they will come to you. Dishonesty is like cancer. It infects people and spreads. It starts with padding hours and then extends to other dishonest behaviors. Eventually, you'll get caught. Dishonest attorneys self-sabotage and aren't happy.

Dishonesty in practice areas like family law can give them a bad reputation. If you're dishonest, it will eat you up inside. You may develop substance abuse problems, psychological problems, and relationship issues.

Concentrate on integrity. It's important for society, with jails, prisons, rules, professional responsibility, and religions emphasizing it. If you can't be trusted, what do you do?

Energy, intelligence, and integrity are the three qualities I want in an attorney. The absence of any of these is fatal. You need to work toward being all three. If you don't have these qualities, you won't be referable. If you do, you'll be hireable and referable.

If I were looking for an attorney, I would want someone smart, enthusiastic, and trustworthy. These three things are crucial. Reflecting on them, I think they're essential.

That's all I have. I'm going to take a quick break for a few minutes. When I come back, I'll answer as many questions as you have. You can ask about anything related to your career. All questions are anonymous, and I'll try to give helpful information based on my experience. I hope today's webinar has been helpful so far.

Thank you.

Okay, let's go to these questions. Give me one second.

What questions should an attorney ask in a law firm interview? There are a bunch of articles on BCG that talk about good questions to ask. I'm happy to comment on that if you'd like. In general, you want to ask questions about your experience and what the firm expects.

Here's an article on BCG with some common questions. Also, check out the top 23 interview tips and the top 10 interview questions. Be careful about asking questions that show an unwillingness to do certain types of work. Here's another guide by one of our recruiters. These are some examples of questions, but search for more on BCG. It's a great question.

Do patent attorneys make a lot of money? Patent attorneys can make a lot of money, depending on the firm and the work they're doing. Most patent attorneys pass the patent bar to practice before the Patent and Trademark Office. The work is very scientific and doesn't necessarily make use of writing skills. Larger law firms push down costs for patent work due to competition from overseas.
 

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No legal recruiter in the United States has placed more attorneys at top law firms across every practice area than Harrison Barnes. His unmatched expertise, industry connections, and proven placement strategies have made him the most influential legal career advisor for attorneys seeking success in Big Law, elite boutiques, mid-sized firms, small firms, firms in the largest and smallest markets, and in over 350 separate practice areas.

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