25 Reasons Why Boutique Firms Are the Best Choice for Many Attorneys and Can Be Much Safer Than Larger Law Firms

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25 Reasons Why Boutique Firms Are the Best Choice for Many Attorneys and Can Be Much Safer Than Larger Law Firms
[00:00:00] Your happiness will really, in a large part, be determined by the type of environment that you're in. And a lot of attorneys do make a huge mistake with their careers and the mistake was relating to.
And the mistake is related to the type of employer they work for. One of the reasons I wrote this article and I decided to do this presentation today is because something that I noticed very early on in my career, as I clerked for a judge in a in a relatively small town in Michigan, Northern Michigan, when I got out of law school.
And that, that judge there were a lot of kids that were my age that had graduated from Michigan and Thomas Cooley and university of Detroit and all these law schools around Michigan that had started around the same time I did with this judge and law firms in this part of it, in this part of the country.
And what I noticed was 20 years later when I looked all those people up, they were all still with the same firms and they had, presumably nice lives and stuff in those areas and they were still practicing law. The people that I knew that had gone to large cities, most of them worked [00:01:00] in multiple firms and had a lot of issues in that period of time.
And some of them, a few of them had actually died of heart attacks and other sorts of things because of the distress. So I do think that there's a lot of benefit to working in smaller firms. And and that's what I'm gonna talk about today. I'm also gonna talk about next week, I'll talk about the benefits of large firms.
So you can have an understanding of those differences, but smaller firms can really make a huge difference in your career and kind of your level of happiness. As an attorney and and it's something that I think you should not know about. And one of the things I think that is amazing to me is that, most of us are really geared towards wanting more money, more beauty, things like that, success popularity and then, and really driven to work in big cities.
We think that's something that's going to provide us a lot of happiness and and really make us stand out in the eyes of others. I think a lot of cases, and that's these sorts of things are very ego driven. And I think many times more and more people want then the more they compare themselves [00:02:00] to others the unhappier, I think that they often will become.
And that's just something to think about because the more you're comparing yourself to others and you're feeling like your worth as a person is dependent upon being like them. That is something that can really hold you back. And there's a lot of people that are immune to those sorts of influences, I think.
But I do think that a lot of attorneys are unusually driven by that. And it's something that ends up doing them a lot of harm. Years ago I Just a, a interesting story, but I started finding a local in, in, in my mailbox society, magazines and so forth talking about, different parties and happenings and stuff that were all over Los Angeles.
And there's things like this kind of going on all day there's club openings, there's store openings, there's there's parties for this and parties for that. And stars and celebrities are always invited. And and then my wife at the time I grew up in Los Angeles and would see these pictures and would always, I would say to her, what are all these people like?
And she would say I don't know many of them very well. But I do [00:03:00] know that all of them have a reputation for doing a lot of cocaine. So I, and so I, I think that there's no moral to this, but I'll tell you in a second but she said, so if you want to get invited to all these parties, all you need to do is start doing a lot of.
Hanging out with these people and sooner or later you will find yourself, but at least partners. And when I thought about that at the time, it struck me as sad. And the reason it did is because the message was that, in order to be somewhere in, you're not and put on the appearance of popularity and so forth, a lot of us they'll end up destroying ourselves in many cases and really and financially, socially, professionally and other ways as well.
And and I think, in, in my experience a lot of attorneys who work in large law firms do end up having quite a few problems and and really it's not certainly uniform. But I do believe that in pursuit of popularity and looking good in the eyes of others appearing a certain type of people.
They're pursuing something that they believe is very important to them from a [00:04:00] social and a, professional and financial success. But in reality they're just trying to be well-liked by turning their attention to, or turning themselves to something that, may not be in their best interest.
When you work in a lot of large law firms, you may work in extremely long hours. You may be in a position where you're trying to please other people and to look better than your peers, and you're chasing something that's popularity and so forth. You may be suffering.
Just like someone that's using cocaine a lot to suffer health and other problems. And you're generally sacrificing yourself in pursuit of something that the large law firm really wants. And and that's part of the problem. And, when I, my first law firm that I was in, I noticed it was a, a fast growing from a very motivated people.
And majority of I think almost every attorney that had been married in that firm was divorced. And so a lot of attorneys get divorced early in their careers when they work in those types of environments. And and I'm often to be honest with you to just kinda mystified that people are doing this for themselves [00:05:00] because they learn about smaller firms or or other kind of alternatives are often very dismissive.
And and even though putting themselves in another environment could be a key to their happiness. I think a lot of times, when people are unhappy and or they're not happy, one of the reasons is that they're not in the right environment or they're not around the right group of people.
And I'm not saying that every large law firm is bad because that's certainly not true, not the case, but at the same time if you're in an environment that's very demanding on you and in your time and in your, and you're not feeling supported and good about yourself, then you may be in a position where you know, where you could very well be hurting yourself in the long run.
And when I talked to attorneys from large law firms about the either or, and happier expressing issues with their careers, a lot of times when I suggested them going to smaller firms, that they immediately will say things like, I would never do this. And and and that sort of thing.
And they believe that they're only going to find that they're only going to find happiness being somewhere else, they're attracted with the [00:06:00] clamor and so forth, even though it may not give them a lot of good. And I think that the reason that a lot of. Aren't necessarily attracted to the smaller firms, has to do with the fact that people will place the reputation and the prestige among other things of the long, large law firm and believe that has to do with their own happiness.
If you the thing that's very interesting to me is when you talk to attorneys that, that are very good firms and you ask them, what are the top 25 most procedures firms in your area and your city and so forth. And you asked them to rank them.
The majority of them can and they literally, most of them can articulate the differences between one that may be ranked, 12 and 16. This is how people think they're so hung up on the idea of prestige and so forth that You know that that it really affects him in a deep level.
Another thing that happens is if you ask them a list of a hundred firms in their city, most of them can tell you information about them as well. So that's another thing that that's very interesting and stuff, whole pecking order of the larger firms versus a smaller firms and so forth that that [00:07:00] that is interesting.
And then people will almost define themselves and how well they're doing and their success based on the hierarchy of the firm they're working for. And and a lot of attorneys will even dismiss firms based on rumor innuendo and so forth. And when I wrote this article originally, I was working with an attorney that had, w was that a okay from, a good firm, but not a great firm.
And formerly been with a really good firm. And and I, were in Los Angeles, I gave him a list of 500 firms and there's literally thousands of law firms from Los Angeles to talk about it. You had impressions of each of them without even knowing right when I gave him the list.
And people will dismiss firms, they have their identities are often defined by where they work and and and it's very difficult. This whole preoccupation with prestige and what it can do to people.
And it's definitely something to think about very closely. I've seen a lot of people drop out of the practice. Because they can't get a position and affirmative as prestigious as the one they're in which is completely ridiculous. I've seen other people literally leave the practice [00:08:00] I've seen attorneys turned down offers with firms that are very good for inconsequential reasons because because the firm name, they got an offer where there's and that's prestigious.
And so that's all a problem. I've seen people move to, mid-sized cities and turn down offers because of salaries. May only be half of what they're making in a major market. With far fewer hours because they define themselves based on how much money they make.
And then a lot of these people will, call themselves recovering attorneys and so forth if anyone asks. It's very difficult and that very common for them. To drop out of the practice of law. When they're not getting the sorts of positions that they want.
So I told you earlier that, I grew up when my one of my first jobs practicing my first job out of law school was working with a federal judge in Michigan that, where a town that was known for beef farming. And and then I got to know several of the attorneys from there.
And and when I looked up all the attorneys, I found that they were all still practicing at the same firms. And and of course there's a pecking order among firms in that part of the country, too, even though it's not a huge geographic area, but at the [00:09:00] same time it's not there's not really that much pecking order and instead what those attorneys are.
W where they, I think what's important to them or their careers, of course, but things that are more important are things like their families churches and stability. And and I would submit to you that like a lot of people that practice in smaller markets and smaller firms those people are actually a lot happier.
And and and and when I review resumes every review every day people apply to BS from GE and so forth. I review all the resumes that come in personally. And and when I look at different law firms, I almost always see the most stability from people that are working in smaller law firms, not the larger firms.
And when people go to larger firms, things to stop and better career stop, or they will often, and not some, most people the dropout of the practice of law are going house and stuff are often. The large, the largest firms and so that's one of the drawbacks and and I do think that th depending on, what your value system is, I do think that a lot of attorneys from smaller firms end up being a much more [00:10:00] better adjusted and so forth, then those that are from larger firms and small, stable firms are not easy to find, but it's often something that I think can really serve you.
When I look at attorneys that have been practicing and larger firms for 20 plus years, a lot of them often seem very nervous. They not as happy those in smaller firms. So that's why I'm doing this. And now of course, in my career and what I do for a living, I place attorneys in large law firms all the time.
So I, it's not that I have anything against our. But w as you are making career decisions it is important that you consider the benefits of working in potentially a smaller law firm is one of your career choices. Cause it could be one of the most important career choices you ever make.
And, if you're in a large law firm and you're suffering from health problems and you're you're, you're stressed, you're unhappy, you don't know where to go. You're having problems with relationships. You're you're constantly comparing yourself to others and so forth.
You have to ask yourself if you're doing the right thing and not everyone's like that. Of course. Some people are very well-balanced and can go into those sorts of environments and know how to set limits and [00:11:00] so forth. So I'm not saying that everyone's like that, but if you are having problems I do think that you may want to consider working in a smaller law firm and and it's also, before I get into, obviously.
It's also something of the can give you a lot of launch activity in your career. And and you're often better off doing something that's going to give you a lunch activity where you're not going to run out of energy and so forth. And you may be working in an environment where where you're never going to believe, where you're going to want to drop out, or all you can think of is dropping out.
And and that's not a good state to be in. If you don't want to be doing something, you shouldn't be doing it. And a smaller law firm could really provide you that sort of advantage. So the first thing is in terms of the, there's 25 reasons you may want to work in a smaller law firm is the, if you're in a niche practice area in each practice areas can be things like.
 Chris patent prosecution tax healthcare so out of firms that are very good for that. And and so I've listed some of the ones here where,[00:12:00] working in in a Butch, he could be a much better thing for you. Family law is one of them, which is a great practice here to get into now trusting the state's employment that I've listed here.
And and being one of those practice here, appellate law is also very good. So some of those areas of practice law, in many cases in those boutique firms they were started because groups of attorneys. Practicing those types of initiatives got together to practice that type of law.
And and those firms are very respected. There's a lot of firms that are in those niche practice areas that are the most respected in the markets and and where you're going to, get a very good reputation and so forth and got a continuous stream of business. If you have a certain specialty and that's what you want to do, you're often better off working in a boutique law firm due to its strength and a given practice area.
And and, often depending on what your practice area is that the boutiques have, very good pricing for they get access to the most important work. And so the best place is often in a boutique firm. Another reason to go to a boutique firm is if you're in a practice area or specialty that isn't as [00:13:00] profitable for large law firms, There's all sorts of practice areas of that large law firms are not profitable doing and that will often, they will either do the work gradually or they'll do it or they don't want to do it.
And so you do need, you are going to be much better off in a smaller firm. Some of those areas are like insurance defense criminal law is another one, almost every type of plaintiff's work trusting the states has definitely one, a lot of times that's a loss leader for law firms, women.
They have that practice area for their partners and for for some of their clients family law is another one. Most types of entertainment law are not going to be that profitable. And then also a lot of different types of public interest work. If you have, if you're in a practice area like that you're often going to be much better.
And pretty much all forms of consumer-facing work are also where you're representing individuals in contrast to large businesses. Those are often mixed, better off done at a smaller firm and a larger one. And and also very few law firms. I represent individuals to large lifetimes unless the individual is extremely wealthy.
That work [00:14:00] is almost always done by smaller law firms. And then the next one is if you want to represent a smaller businesses if you're a corporate attorney or if you're a litigator or whatever your, you're, you it's often it's going to be much easier for you to attract businesses our business, if you want to work with smaller businesses in a smaller law firm than a large law firm the reason that large law firms are very difficult to bring in the type of businesses, the rates are often very high.
lot of attorneys do working with helping smaller businesses and and you can develop a, a lot of times attorneys that are working in smaller markets will have, lots of months of clients because smaller businesses will, in the town, it will always come to them with all their legal concerns.
You can often do very well doing that. I've met all sorts of attorneys in my past that, have all sorts of specialties that they never could have done and developed in a large law firm, I'm doing one example is the franchise owners of a certain fast food chain and even just different types of clients.
And you may often be better off working for a smaller firm than a larger law firm, if you want to develop a stable book. Yeah. [00:15:00] Th the reason, by the way, it's so difficult to develop business from smaller clients and large law firms has a lot of larger law firms are only looking for major companies.
So they want, public companies and that sort of thing. And they're not interested in necessarily in smaller companies. And so you may never be able to develop a book of business in a large law firm. Once you develop a book of business, you have a lot of stability in your career.
And that will meaning those people will always come back to you. And so you don't, you're not necessarily dependent on the law firm. You work in you can move law firms and all sorts of things to make a living. Another thing just, this is a kind of a small one, but I feel that attorney is very senior.
It may be often easier for them to work in large law firms than am in a smaller law firm than a larger law firm. You can often get jobs, have placed. I, all the time I placed senior attorneys meaning, they may have 20, 30, 40 years of experience and you can play some, a lot of times in especially if they're in a well defined practice area.
You can play some, a lot of times in smaller firms, even if they don't have any [00:16:00] business. And so that's a very good option once you could senior for coming from a larger law firm. And at the same time, a lot of smaller firms do have a hard time attracting attorneys from large law firms that have a lot of
that that have that kind of credibility. So there's obviously a market. If you become a senior attorney to work in smaller firms if that's something you're interested in doing things okay. And a smaller law firms are often more than happy to hire attorneys from larger law firms with more experience.
And and we also have clients and all sorts of things that, they could do. One example would just be like if a a smaller law firm has mergers and acquisitions and they're, they have some business that they can do. They may welcome the opportunity to hire people from large law firms would do that instead of having to refer the workout elsewhere.
And so I've seen a lot of examples like that from corporate and other types of attorneys where they're able to go to a smaller firms and do the work. And many times bringing in a larger law firm attorneys can be very profitable for smaller firms and often works out. So I know a lot [00:17:00] of corporate attorneys, for example, That have gone into larger law firms or smaller law firms out of major law firms.
And then they've been able to get quite a bit of business bringing quite a bit of business and from existing clients. One of the things that that, you can also do is have many times attorneys and larger law firms have a book of business so they could have, I don't know what it would be, but large law firms have a lot of pricing power in terms of how they pay partners in the market.
Many large law firms they're not compensating the attorney. If the attorney is not being compensated the way they want and a large law firm they can often move to a larger law firm. They may not have as much support and expensive office space and so forth to get a larger percentage of their business.
So an example would be a market like Los Angeles, if a partner has say a $2 million book of business and a large law firm, their compensation can be anywhere from, I hate to say it, but 350, 400,000 to a 650,700,000, something like that, maybe sometimes a little bit more.
But they can, they [00:18:00] definitely can earn that type of money and a larger firm but larger law firms can also afford to pay them. We'll often pay them less at the lower end of that. So if an attorney, except them goes to a smaller firm with that type of business they may be able to keep 50% or more of the money that they're bringing in.
And it's often a very smart choice because the third, their clients may not require the same level of re name recognition and so forth. This is needed in the lottery. And I've known lots of attorneys in a variety of practice areas have done that successfully and and benefit from moving to smaller law firms.
But at the same time there's definitely a lot of drawbacks from that. And and so Lark, but smaller law firms will often give you a much larger percentage of profits and on the larger law firm. And they have less overhead and the salaries and so forth are lower and less legacy costs and all that sort of thing.
Another thing the reason that attorneys will often move to a smaller law firms and it's actually a good reason you may be a senior associate or so forth at a small, a large law firm and not have any opportunity to make partner if that's the case. You can see. There's a [00:19:00] lot of large law firms who will definitely give you that title.
So that makes it a much easier. I've worked with countless attorneys that have moved to larger law firms or smaller law firms because they wanted to get to be called partners and the new firm. And and that's definitely important to a lot of people. Even though they may make a little bit less money then they would even as an associate or counsel, they will still move Kate to get the title.
And it's very frequent for attorneys at larger law firms. I had a glass ceiling and then they moved to boutique firms in order to get a better salary and so forth. Not a better salary, but a better title. And that can definitely be something you want to do.
And it's much, much easier to become a partner in a lot of smaller law firms than it is larger law firms and advancement in smaller law firms. There's often Th a lot of firms often guarantee their advancement. And then the other thing is you may, in some markets not have any other options, but to work in a smaller law firm.
One of the most important things any attorney can do is to stay employed. And so if you want a career inside of a law firm you often need to take, whatever you can get at some [00:20:00] point. And, once you're unemployed and not working in any law firm for an extended period of time, it become, it becomes very difficult for those attorneys to find new positions.
And so when you're in that case, the best thing you can often do is to get a position in a smaller law firm. And it's not going to do you much good if you're unemployed. You can always try to move to a larger firm later. So w what I will often see in this happens quite a bit is attorneys will lose their jobs with large law firms, or their law firm will have some problems.
And when you leave. And rather than having a period of unemployment, you can always go to a smaller. And that's something and and you can, by the way, people always ask this question and if you move to a smaller law firm, you can eventually always move to a larger law firm later, if you want.
 It's especially if you're in a niche practice area, it's it's definitely especially when you're in a good legal market, it's nothing really to worry about something so if you're losing your job it's just very important to standpoint and smaller law firms are a good option.
Once you move to a once, once you have a period of unemployment in your resume, it's [00:21:00] often just very difficult to get quite again. So you do not want to look weak to the market. And you're going to have a hard time getting into a position unless you take a job often you may just be in a smaller market without a lot of large law firms.
Obviously there's no reason not to work in that market. So people will relocate with spouses and that sort of thing all the time. And or they may need to move to a market. And and then when they do that, they, they, it's important for them to be able to to find a position with a firm that has jobs.
And so that's it's, you're much better off working. So I've seen people, for example, move to markets they may move to Aspen, Colorado with a spouse or something, or, or I don't know, some other small area of the country. And and they only options. There are smaller law firms and that's perfectly fine.
There's nothing wrong with doing that. And then many times what happens is the market can go into recession. And so if the market goes into recession and there's no jobs available, then you know, work will always slow down dramatically and the largest firms. So they have the highest billing rates and often.
No, that's the place where the work goes. So I've [00:22:00] seen, major recessions, at least a couple of them. And what happens in all of recessions is the work will typically go from large firms to smaller firms. So the companies to save money will give a lot of their kind of routine corporate work and mitigation to smaller trenches that have larger firms.
And and that's just a, kind of a major pattern. So you're often better off moving to smaller law firms in those markets. I I have a story that I like to tell a lot, but during one major recession we we had a couple of we had an office in Chicago and I told the people working in that office you need to go.
And work only with smaller firms from the suburbs because the larger law firms are all, laying people off and they did. And they had, the recruiters in that office had their best year ever. Because all the workers moving to the suburbs, so it's like.
And all recessions where you're better off in smaller markets. And typically during recessions, our revenues have actually increased because there's just so many opportunities in smaller markets and people don't understand that. And people come to us we get them jobs and yeah, and [00:23:00] then the other thing that can happen too, this is not really that important, but when interest rates are rising a lot of practice areas will slow down.
Real estate has been active for a long time, but certainly 20 plus years ago it was much slower and when interest rates were higher. The most important thing just is to make sure that you stay employed. So regardless of what has happened to you in your legal career, regardless of how you feel regardless of if you feel like.
Whatever you do you're always better off staying employed. And I do think that smaller law firms are a good option when you feel that way. Another thing that a reason to move to a smaller law firm is if you're an understand in doing much work.
So I see a lot of times attorneys that actually want to take time off they, they get positions where they're called counsel and smaller law firms. And they're not really doing much at all. And they're smaller law firms. We're giving them that in order and shit. And, and then if it attorney does some work, we'll pay them for it.
And that's something that you can do too, if you're just thinking about dropping off and you need time off, there's smaller law firms that will go for that arrangement. They may not initially, but they will. [00:24:00] And there's lots of attorneys out there that are called counsel that really aren't working with smaller law firms.
It's a good option to stay employed on your resume. And if there's. It could be women raising children attorneys exploring other careers, starting businesses. These are just a few examples. And those who may be undecided about whether or not they want to continue practicing law.
And and if you want to leave your options open you can often get positions with smaller law firms. They'll call you, declare yourself counsel. Another very smart reason to go to work in a budget from is if you have close friends or relatives or others that are working, that will look out for you.
So I've seen a lot of people that have worked in large major law firms that know people that have relatives that have small that, maybe working in smaller law firms. And that's often a very good idea. If you have people that you're comfortable working with and that are going to have your back as opposed to a large impersonal, corporate law firm, then that may be a smart thing for you to do.
I think. If you're someone watching this and you, you do have that, those [00:25:00] kinds of connections beyond the appearance of nepotism and so forth and having some objections to that. I do think you could be much better off many times working in a smaller law firm. If you have people there that will protect you, and if there's so some sort of legacy and so forth in that firm that, that will, you know, that, where you can take over and learn or in the ropes.
I think that's a very smart thing. There's lots of law firms out there by the way that have been around for decades or the, it started by grandfather and then the father comes there and works there too. And then the son or the daughter, and that sort of thing. So it can be very good to have that.
And I think attorneys that are in those positions are. A lot of them are always trying to get new positions because they wanted to show who they can do it on their own. And that's fine, but I'm going back to that. If you've done that or even starting there and learning from people, it can be very smart.
And and when attorneys come to me and ask for that sort of thing I always tell them to stay right where they are and to [00:26:00] get to try to get good experience and training as well.
 Normally if you have a relative at a place like that they can be very helpful. Just one second, I've switched construction going on in the office next door.
hi, sorry about that. There, there drill, I guess you guys can't hear it, but they're drilling in an office next door to me. So relatives can often help you. And and that can be something that I would recommend if you have that sort of ability to do that. I think that just in terms of your own happiness many times working in a family firm and so forth can be a very good thing and a smart thing.
And your goal as an attorney one of your goals should be to always have mentors and people that are looking out for you and powerful allies. And If you have people that have your back and they're your family and relatives and so forth. And I don't think that's something that should be bothering.
I think it's something that can be very helpful to you and and and pretty much every calling out there people that have achieved a lot of successful often do it with a help help of their families and their encouragement and relatives from other people.
So having the connection [00:27:00] with a smaller law firm, I think is a very smart thing. And then the other thing that I think is another good reason to go to boutiques is, you may find a boutique with a stunning business proposition. And a lot of times, you have to remember that all large law firms typically will start out as boutiques.
And so if you find a boutique that looks really good that, that can be a very smart thing. When I finished my clerkship or when I was finishing my clerkship, I had an option to go into New York and work. But from where I was December associate, and then I had some offers from Los Angeles.
And then I had an offer at a firm that had about 45 attorneys at the time, pretty manual, which I guess would be considered boutique. And now it's one of the largest law firms in the world. And and and and I went there and chose it because there was something that made it different from all of the firms I spoke with.
And it, you could tell it was going somewhere. And when you find something that seems very positive and where there's a lot of enthusiasm in a smaller law firm, that looks really good, that can also be an exceptional career choice for you as well. And good things can happen to you and people that stayed there did [00:28:00] very well.
And if you're on the ground floor of that, you had a lot of opportunities and and and that wouldn't have been possible if you had joined it as an established firm, It's important to remember that when you join firms that are not established, a lot of times you can have you do have access to a lot of opportunities that you might not normally have.
So an understand from that's growing is a place where you probably are more likely to be able to become a partner where you may have longer term income and so forth. And the more established affirm as the less likely that knows. Another thing is, you you a lot of times people will leave large law firms and and the kind of refugees.
And if, if you're if there's a firm that is broken off from your own firm, that can also be a good option for you as well. And almost a weekly basis, all over the country, there's people doing. Dropping off a major law firms and maths and then take it some clients with them at the same time, starting new firms.
Sometimes if you have the opportunity to go with that, if you think it's good, if you think that people that are doing that are often you'll get business [00:29:00] proposition, it could be a good place for you to work, and that can be a very smart thing for you to do. And you may have maybe a very good career decision if that's something you're trying to do.
And there's all sorts of reasons that people will break off from large law firms and start their own firms. It could be for, financial reasons it could be for they believe that there's more opportunities, less structure. It's always the same thing.
It's, the, I want to do things differently, whatever one better for clients. Who knows? They always say the same thing. But at the same time if you're more comfortable with the people that are breaking off and you do believe in their opportunities, and you do want to have your name on the door as a founder of a firm or so for that can be very smart.
And lot of times people will break off from large firms because their firm has lost their commitment to a certain practice area or the firms having other problems or doing other sexual restructuring that would make it a better place for you to work out. Firms may often lose their commitment to branch offices and so leaving me off and be the best option for them.
 The other thing is a reason that people will often leave is they want to [00:30:00] go to a smaller firm. Maybe a good idea for you is because I'm, you're going to, you can have more client contact. When you're working on smaller matters, obviously you can have a lot more client contact. And that client contact is important.
A lot of people want to feel connected to clients. They want to. They want to feel like what they're doing has, is having an impact. They want to see the impact. They want to have a relationship with clients. And and in some large law firms, you can be working for, five or more years on a client's manners and never see or talk to a client.
 It's rare, but it can happen. So in smaller law firms, you may feel a lot more committed to your work to get a lot more client contact than you would necessarily in a larger firm. And if you're driven by wanting to have that connection people smaller law firms often going to be I could have that.
And then the next thing is just the level of responsibility. So smaller law firms will often have a lot fewer layers. You may just be able to take on, if you're a litigator, you may be able to go to court and do trials where you would never be able to do that in a larger firm. Larger law firms typically will have different levels of responsibility involved in things.
And in a larger law [00:31:00] firm I'll be working on portions of matters, not the entire matter. And smaller law firms will often offer attorneys the ability to have a lot more responsibility. And and that will then you were getting smaller law firms. So some people just want to have a lot of native responsibility.
They want to have their own clients and be able to do everything. And that can, you may thrive on that and that can be very important and and you can have ownership of matters and and which can be very exciting. If you know what you're doing then you want to be left alone.
A smaller law firm may be a really good choice. And then a lot of times attorneys had that aren't happy practicing law we'll do, different shots. Like they'll try several large firms and we'll try different. And then, going to a smaller law firm may be the last thing that they do.
And before they leave the practice law or they may want to stay in the practice law, but they just want to find an environment and they try those kind of their last thing and and so they may, do it as less than before they go and house her before they take a number type of job.
And this is one of the oldest ways of thinking about going to a boutique firm that there is. And it's just [00:32:00] something to think about and being made want to do, if you're at for a larger firm to go to a smaller firm again, you'll have more client contact and you may feel more comfortable and the smaller firm would be more left alone.
So I do think it is a smart move. If you're considering the practice quitting, the practice. And then the other thing I think that that really did a lot of people missed is that, if you may be actually just more comfortable in a smaller firm large law firms can be very impersonal.
You may not know how decisions are going to be made. You may not know what's going to happen. They don't necessarily feel family. There's lots of bureaucracy. You don't know where your career stands. You may feel insecure that work can be demanding. You don't feel like anybody is ever going to be looking out for you.
And and smaller law firms are often, definitely a much more personal and intimate. They can be like families. The attorneys go off know each other very well. They may be friendly outside of work. I know, all over the country and a lot of smaller law firms, the attorneys or the friends or family, their families, or friends and so forth, it's just a different atmosphere and they're committed and they're not always looking for new jobs.
And so a lot of times if an [00:33:00] attorney's at a smaller level. They may often really make a major effort to get along with other attorneys much more, so there's not a personal illness and tribes and different groups. There's just everyone knows what's going on and that, that type of security is important.
That's people are animals and we're tribal in nature. And so being with a group of people that you're comfortable with and you believe have your bath can be very important and it can contribute to not feeling depressed not being anxious and so forth.
The other thing is there's lots of attorneys out there and a good percentage. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this, but that have, work habits or other problems that just wouldn't work at a large law firm. You can and then again, I'm not criticizing them.
There's a lot of attorneys out there that have problems with drugs or alcohol. Some of them have had bad things that they've done in the past. They've had, mental problems or they may have ongoing psychological problems. Some of them have been disbarred in one state or, had other issues and they can still find positions and a lot of what you firms, and [00:34:00] it may be a more welcoming to those sorts of issues.
I'm not as sensitive to clients and other people finding out about them. And again, everyone has different problems and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with smaller law firms for having that. But there's lots of people that get into trouble or have problems and and certainly a smaller law firm.
A good option because they can, it's, you still have the skill. If you've had the problems where, you know, you just, you may have some, there may have been some bumps in the road, or there may be some ongoing bumps that that would make a different environment more walking for you, which is a good thing.
So I do know that a lot of times when large law firm attorneys do have those sorts of problems, they're often welcomed into problems. I just, this is an example here. I know one attorney this is actually incredible story, but he'd been formally one of the top partners in a major law firm in Los Angeles and then with a huge book of business and and then.
 Just turned into kind of a full blown alcoholic and now he lives in the desert and works in social security disability cases. Which again, there's nothing [00:35:00] at a very small often, so there's nothing wrong. I don't know that the alcohol is in the script for him, but but the point is that he's able to do this work and infection.
So this is an option for you, if you have issues sometimes and and you can certainly find smaller firms doing different practice areas and and that's an option. And then the other thing that I think is actually, if you are very motivated is the prospect of being a big fish in a small pot.
So you can, if you're very motivated and you can join a large law firm or a smaller law firm and, effectively become the lead person there with a lot of power and and you can use your intellect and decision-making ability and work ethic and so forth pitch. Some major to make some major impact.
And I know a lot of attorneys that drop out of large law firms and go do that and build up competing firms and so forth. And and as you're working with people that have a lot of respect and suddenly you're a leader and and this and you bring in more clients and you can do all sorts of great things.
And so that's also, that's a great option for a lot of people and you can run the show. I know a lot of people you can, become a superstar and you can suddenly get very [00:36:00] good feedback. Whereas in a large law firm, you may not never be able to feel that way wherever you're at.
And the, someone that, isn't able to really generate business, significant business in a large law firm can often do so in a smaller law firm. And all sorts of different ways. And and I would say that, for a lot of people, especially younger people, your success and how you feel about yourself is based on what other people think of you and and how you believe you're standing out with your peers.
And and so you can often get that in a smaller firm and compared to a larger firm. And feeling successful in many times as a result of surrounding yourself with less successful peers. I had a funny story. It's not that funny for story, but I was when I was in 10th grade, I went to school and Bangkok and I came out of there.
I was in ninth grade, I think when I graduated, I was like, maybe the top person in my class from grades and so forth or me after my first year. And then I went back to, from. I went to a private school and I assume the same thing was going to happen to me there. And I was just after my first year there probably in the middle of the class.
So it's, it's just [00:37:00] depending a lot of cases in the environment you're in, but if you're in a certain environment then he may you're going to feel better about yourself. And I serve mixed thought. I was a superstar. When I was this school.
And then the other thing is, if you're not going to be practicing wild, long, you may be better off in a smaller firm. The you're going to have probably a lot of boutiques in smaller firms are going to have lower hour requirements. The firm's going to be more flexible with you.
They may allow you to work part time. They may have a lot more open a company for that. Large law firms will often make or smaller law firms will make offer, make all sorts of concessions that large law firms would ever made. And I've seen. And so one girl take classes, computer programmer, then you become a computer programmer.
As some people start businesses and write books and blogs and all sorts of things, how to travel and work remotely. So there's all sorts of things you can do when you're working in a smaller firm that you couldn't sometimes during a larger firm while you're actually working. And if you offer something strong enough the firms often willing to let you do that.
And then the other thing is if you [00:38:00] want to avoid a lot of politics that exists in larger law firms then you know, then that certainly is another option. Smaller law firms often have a lot less politics. A lot of times they were started by people that didn't want politics.
And in, in large law firms are always changing and adjusting. There's the August new people coming up and leaving and going down and hiring and firing. So there's a lot of stuff going on and to see if you don't like that you may be willing to accept a smaller salary and change for peace of mind that you can get from working in a smaller firm.
And then there's other jobs that are difficult to get when you're many times when you're coming from an accounting firm or you're coming from in-house the government or public interest, it can be very difficult to get a job in a large law firm, large law firms, almost always, when they're hiring laterally want to hire people that are coming from the same type of employer.
Typically other large law firms and and or, smaller law firms. And so they have very little interest in people that are coming from those sorts of employers. And if you're not part of one of those, and many times you're going to do much better. Giving the job on a small law firm.
The nice thing about small law firms and [00:39:00] firms is that once you get one of those jobs, then you can always move to a larger law firm later, just coming from in-house and so forth is very difficult to do. And it's just large law firms do not like people not coming directly from law firms.
And that's just something to think about the, and the quality of people coming from it's just, coming from law firms to in-house is or in-house to law firms is often very consistent. And which was one of the reasons why most large law firms for me, a lot of people coming from those sorts of employers.
If you can't get a position at anytime with a large law firm or another practice setting, you're often better off in your job with a small firm and the small firm gives you the ability to in a large one. And then again many times people will move to smaller law firms because there's there's sometimes there's small law firms that have very famous people working in them that are considered real experts.
And so that's another reason that to go there and your work that you can work with someone who's very good and pick up on their mannerisms and their ways of working and a lot of very small law firms do have extremely well-known people working in them. A successful [00:40:00] attorneys may have started their own firm.
And working with a famous woman attorney who was also a really good idea in the meantime, and I've seen many attorneys even starting those kind of small firms out of law school. And and it does give you a lot of credibility if you've worked with some on them. And then the other thing is just, if you can't get a job with a major.
And again, most people can, it's, you're talking about a market of, less than 5% of all the attorneys in the United States. There's no problem with working in a small firm. That you should often just take a job at a small law firm. It's a smaller thing to do a smart thing to do.
And and the other thing though, is that, if you do, if you continually are moving up in terms of the type of small law firm that you work in you often can get a job in a large law firm later hours are another thing it's not always the case of smaller law firms that you can get better hours there, but you often do have an option of getting, having much better hours in a smaller law firm.
And the reason is because the many times the attorneys just aren't there's not as much pressure to build those sort of hours, but keep in mind that, every law firm is [00:41:00] a business. And so if the work coming. They will want to do it and the attorneys will work long hours to get work done.
And but most smaller clients are not willing to pay for unlimited hours. And so most critiques are a lot slower in terms of the work that's needed, the long hours needed. And and finally if there's a trial or a transaction or something, then people are going to work long hours to get this stuff done.
But for the most part, you're going to work less hours and a lot of smaller law firms. If they're working for smaller clients, if they're working for larger clients, I don't know that you're going to have hours that are much different, but it's just something to think about. And I don't know that I need to talk a lot about the benefits of not working as many hours, but when you, if you're not working all the time, you're generally going to be happier.
If you're If you're not tired all the time, we're going to be healthier. If you have more time with their spouse and children they're all going to be happier. If you have time to exercise, you're going to be healthier. If you have the ability to take vacations, that's going [00:42:00] to make you refreshed and, and you're going to have time for hobbies and other interests, which are going to enrich you.
So there are a lot of benefits of not working a lot of hours and and and I don't know that anyone who's ever wished they work more hours but when they die and when you want to be able to take time and look better and just in, in defensive of smaller law firms that do offer better hours, you should always remember that you could, anybody could die at any time, or get sick or something could happen.
Yeah. No, you want to make the most of your time here and enjoy stuff. And if it is meaning doing work all the time, that's fine. But I don't know. How important is I've did work at a, couple of law firms and in my career, but in my legal career, but the I've run into attorneys that I practiced before.
And and I w when I originally wrote the article, that's presentations based on, I remember running into a couple of them and they looked like sailors. There their teeth and broken and falling out. And it hadn't been the dentist with like him a long time. They didn't look healthy.
And and that's not necessarily the greatest thing. If you're unhappy and comfy feel helpful, you want to, [00:43:00] could be distressed at working in a large law firm. It could be destroyed. I don't know, but but I do see a lot of attorneys from large law firms.
Getting caught up in the pressure and and if you are with a large law firm, one thing I would say to you is no one's ever going to tell you to slow down because it's not in their best interest. And so you need to, to do what you can to take care of yourself and and set limits.
And you can do that in a large law firm. It's just very hard for people. And then if you don't care about money or prestige, then you're often much better in a smaller law firm. I don't need to talk to you too much about this, but money and prestige you get more of in the larger law firms when you are older and meaning, retired and so forth, you're probably not going to be as concerned about the level of prestige.
But and then and not everybody is I think. Most attorneys and smaller law firms at some point they lose that concern. And you will do the things you're concerned about when you're young, which are, getting ahead and being making the most of yourself are not necessarily going to be around when you're older or you're concerned.
If, if you make happiness and so forth a priority now that may be in your best [00:44:00] interest I've seen people from top law schools, then their first and second summers with a small law firms and decide that they want what they have so much investment, their entire careers there.
And I, I saw that even, where I went to law school, I see people graduating from top five loss was all the time and doing that. And and I think that when you talk to those people, they even at their young age, when they're able, when they do have the ability to go to larger goals they accept, they're, they know where they want to go.
And I think in many cases, those attorneys were, are much happier. They and and I think a lot of it has to do with our upbringing. They may have come to the well adjusted families and they have support systems and they they're just different type of motivation and not everybody's like that.
I do know this and I not, partial one way or another, but I think a lot of these people that are able to go to small law firms that have exceptional qualifications and are growing to the ones that, in different markets, many times they have just very strong support systems. Often it's religious good families and so forth, and they're not trying to prove anything.
And then the [00:45:00] other, this is the final one. And then I'll take a quick break and then we'll take questions. But attorneys who have good books of business, we want to maintain control over the books and their habits. Are often much better off office, smaller law firms. When you're at a larger law firm you can, it's very hard many times to hold on to clients because the firms are always going to be increased in billing rates.
If you give your work to certain associates that are trying to make our other partners that are trying to hourly targets find maybe overbuilt partner will lose clients firms will lower compensation for different reasons. These kinds of things happen in our law firms.
It's not an assault against large law firms, but these sorts of things can happen. And there can just be a lot of conflicts and so forth. The firm may not like certain types of work, the partners doing and so forth and sorts of complaints are common. And some of the reasons that people will move to large law firms, so they have control.
So I lived in Malibu and Especially with much anything, but a lot of the people that I encounter on a day-to-day basis are just very high achievers and and and and some of the most aggressive, higher achievers that I've ever met, just very kind of people.
I don't know [00:46:00] why there's so many in the, through the good community, but there are and, but a large proportion of them that I've talked about has done, or just talk about their recovery and they had done thing and a lot of bad things and hurt people and so forth.
And and and then they talk about how they're never going to do bad things again. And and one of the things that these people are reminded that a lot of them reminded me of. And and it's, it's, I bring this up only because I've seen these examples happen, just so many things.
And met so many people like this, and of course not everyone in this time, it was like that. It's, I'm sure just a small portion, but I think it's a higher proportion than I would ever see again is, a lot of people when they have unhappiness in their lives and their careers and they're they're doing things that you know w that have hurt them.
And and so that is something getting involved in all of that, a race to achieve, or to be a certain type of person and so forth can really hurt you. It hurts your soul. And and it's not a good thing. And and when I see attorneys in larger law firms, many times, I feel like a lot of [00:47:00] them are over time, make may fall victim to.
Kind of in this feeling of not the same sort of feeling where they just don't feel good about themselves. And and I do think that as a general rule a lot of attorneys in smaller law firms comparatively probably do not have as many of those sorts of problems but they certainly do not make as much money.
They don't have as much access to the most important work and other things that I'll talk about next week or firms, but that I think are pretty important. And I think that if you can get yourself out of this mindset of being concerned about the pecking order of large law firms and so 14 may be very happy.
You may work few hours and so forth, but you may actually be much and comparing yourself to others and so forth I think a lot of people base their self-worth on how they compare to others and then happiness ultimately doesn't come from that.
It comes from within. If you are comparing yourself to others and you're buying into this whole thing that you need to work in a large firm, you can make the most money at the highest paycheck and so forth. You're constantly going to be agitated. When you hear about other people doing [00:48:00] better than you, and you may be resentful, and you're always going to be hearing about people that are better than you.
You're also going to be always focused on how you compare to others. You're going to, you're looking down on people that aren't doing as well as you and looking at the people that aren't and that's going to isolate you psychologically. And it's just not a good prescription for happy life and career.
You don't want to be in that position many people. Yeah, you've been really focused and your ex here to people that are better than you and so forth. And it's just going to isolate you. Those are my thoughts about what tech firms I hope that was helpful.
I last week and the week before I did have a stomp that I do have a lot of time for questions today. Every question you guys ask, I'll do my best to answer today. I should be able to. And and then I'm going to take a quick break just for a minute or two. So right now it's 11, 14 where I'm at, but I should be back at probably let's see, probably in three minutes and then and then we'll take questions.
Yeah.
All right, so we're starting questions. Let me see. Let's good. We got a lot of questions we just [00:49:00] see here. So any questions you guys have happy to answer. So let me just see here. Okay. So the first question is how can I best position my big law down the line? There's a mosque and can I land a clerkship?
Given my grades are good, but not amazing. Yeah. To answer your question the best way to do that is to I don't know what your situation is right now, but but I would say if you're if you wanted to be a litigator having a clerkship.
Professional clerkship, a federal clerkship and the federal district court or appellate court, not necessarily magistrate. If your grades are not amazing that's not prevent you from doing, but definitely getting a federal clerkship can help you get a job with a big, the big firm.
Definitely working in a very well-respected smaller firm. Not can do that. Okay. Let's see. What are the disadvantages of working in a boutique firm? There disadvantages of working in a boutique firm there's a lot just this there's advantages to working in just moving this up.
There's advantages to working in a large firm. But the disadvantages are [00:50:00] typically the quality of them the quality of the firms is often much. So that can hurt from the sophistication of the work. Many times, smaller firms will not be doing the most sophisticated work.
The pay is a drawback the some smaller law firms, depending on the boutique firm from the stability could also be a drawback, is stable there's other drawbacks there's actually quite a few. It's not everything it's cracked up to be things about it, but there's quite a few if you do want to go in house, it's you know, in-house companies that the largest ones often prefer people from largest firms from larger the the
Not as good know the quality of the support report, meaning that the people that are helping you with stuff of other fringe benefits like offices nice no opportunity for advancement ability to different practice groups and so forth to help you.
All these things can potentially be major drawbacks for you. If you want to work.
Excellent work in a smaller [00:51:00] law firm. Other ones too, it's just to affirm, but in terms of in terms of research, those are things to keep in mind. There's a lot of advantage, but there's also quite a few disadvantages, another one is, are boutique firms.
Let's see here consider agents so some that are very prestigious and there's others that aren't. So the idea there is that, different law firms some are prestigious on the chart.
 A lot of boutique firms may be considered prestigious depending you typically have to look at the type of people that are working there and the type of matters that they're working on. And that's the best way to tell that. So I will typically, when you look at them, you look at things like look at the matters they're working on.
And then and then look at actually have attorneys there and their backgrounds and, and then and then prestige, of course, prestige is relative to the practice area and the location of where the firmness
that's something different. Could do attorneys make more money in big firms? Could you give an [00:52:00] estimate? Yes. It depends on the firm. So in a lot of boutique firms, attorneys will make more money, but for the most part attorneys do make more money, big firms. The, the attorneys make more money in large law firms.
This is simply due to the fact of the size of the clients, and willingness a for lots of hours
and and from rates. So typically again, boutique firms would typically have smaller clients and because they have smaller clients, those clients will, not want to pay the same sorts of fees. So we, when you go to a large law firm the large law firm will typically not discuss whether they're doing it.
They will do memos and extra research and so forth. And and they'll do that because they want to make. That they are able to be thorough with the work and and the thorough that they are. That's just how large law firms do you put into a smaller law firm? They don't have a lot of the same [00:53:00] options.
Okay. Interesting question here. Let's see. I am sorry if the early part got cut off full envelope, we'll be going to a small firm after graduate of our summer. I'm coming from UVA law. I failed to land a big law firm job despite multiple callbacks, but I'm still angled for big law position down the line.
The firm has good attorneys, but does a combination, but business facing the consumer facing work, how can I best position myself there? Oh, is it clerkship a muffs? And can I land a clerkship here from my grades? From it could behind me. Yeah. Coming out of UVA, you should be able to get up. How much problem.
And yeah the best way to get a clerkship would just be, I would apply to all federal judges who can, so just pretty much everyone. You can during your third year I guess you're in your third year, but you could do it right now during third year. Or, even after your first year and you should get interviews despite your grades it's not really going to hurt.
The other thing is then the other part of your question so you said they're still angling for a big lock position down the line. Yeah, [00:54:00] that's fine. So just because you're doing business facing and consumer facing