[00:00:00] This webinar this week is about disc profiles. And but what it's really about is your personality type and the type of work that you should be doing. And it's actually, this is a very important webinar. I think that if you understand this and and we are going to be offering a free disc test on our site shortly but if you understand disc profiles and how they work which it sounds like a very boring topic, but the idea behind any type of personality profile that you take is a lot of times people end up in the wrong professions or doing the wrong type of work because because they're not they're not doing things that kind of match the personality.
Determining what type of person you are and taking one of these tests means that there's certain types of work that you should be doing that you may not be doing. So a lot of people go into the practice law, especially now, and a lot of people are going into law schools because they believe that being in a certain B being in the profession is a way to make money.
But, there's certain [00:01:00] characteristics of. Attorneys that actually make them very good. There's actually certain characteristics of different practice areas that make an attorney very good at their job. So that's what I'm going to talk a little bit about today, just to understand that.
And th the idea is if you, there may be actually different types of roles within firms that will match your personality as you go forward in your career. So you may start out in one practice area or one, or in a law firm or in house with the government. And if you're able to find. The kind of employer that Matt matches your profile and your natural interest the net and that's makes you much better off in the long run.
And you really do need to take into account your personality and the type of person you are when you start practicing law, because and as you go through your career, because if you're unhappy what's happening in most cases is different things that you believe are important that are fundamental to who you are not being utilized.
And if there's parts of the job that don't make you happy, then you need to go into parts of the job that were things that are about, [00:02:00] or, are being utilized. So that's something to think about and just profiles are interesting. We here I started using them a long time ago, like in 2001, 2002.
And.
And I've used them fairly consistently, but in some cases for radically in terms of making hiring decisions and also allowing. Candidates to take them in law firms to evaluate people based on them. And it actually works. Kinda determining the right setting and stuff for your skills is important.
And a lot of people will go into different jobs and they'll be in the wrong skill. I see all the time attorneys go into the wrong practice area, practice setting a law firm. And many times they're in the wrong profession entirely. And it's understandable with people failing because they don't know themselves and what motivates them.
And so I'm going to tell you today a little bit as you without you having to take one of these profiles I'll tell you give you a sense of how you may P how your profile may play out. And then there's lots of Three disc profiles online that you can take.
And and it will give you an [00:03:00] understanding of other people the kind of people you get along with don't get along with and should be working with. And it shouldn't be working with it. So this is one of the reasons that's important because if you're having problems with you at your job, my approach and many times with a lot of my writings has always been tough love.
You have to, shape up or ship out and that's true to some extent, but at the same time if you're not getting internal satisfaction or what you're doing, doesn't internally motivate you. You can't be something you're not. And and trying to be something you're not is it is a real mistake and and something that motivates you, because if your job's not in aligned with your values, then that can be very hard.
So not too long ago, I was meeting and he was mentoring me for awhile. A man, he runs a $150 million company painting houses and doing work for hos around the country. And I wanted to understand some methods that he has to evaluate people to and and what he's doing in his company to, to make them more effective and
sorry to make them more [00:04:00] effective. And he's a. A lawyer and he's coming, he's not a lawyer and he's uneducated. However he's become very successful by some tools that he uses to understand himself and also others. And he stuffed the third or fourth incredibly successful entrepreneur that I've spoken with over the past several years.
That uses the same method to unders excuse me, to understand himself and others. And and I used to use the same process for evaluating critters. But at some point I stopped and then started again. But the idea is that attorneys difficult, different than will fit into different types of law firms and practice settings depending on how they see themselves.
And the sorts of jobs that others want to plug you into will often determine whether or not your success. And I think a lot of times when attorneys are looking for positions and new jobs is they believe they should be working with a particular group of people or a certain type of environment when that could be honestly the worst thing in the world for them.
And law firms that are hiring associates partners and others [00:05:00] also got, should keep a of this stuff in mind when they're hiring. So the good local recruiter can help you narrow down the best environment for you. But you can also do a lot of this yourself. A lot of the skills that recruiters used and other people in the talent agent industry do is they will go and.
Though look at your background and they'll reach conclusions about the kind of environment that you should be in. And then they'll push you in that direction, but they are not always wrong. And and the guy that developed the disc tool, I think he was a psychologist and an attorney William.
also went to Yale law school. Maybe not, I don't remember, but I think he did. And it basically looks at the personality traits of dominance influence, steadiness and supportive and conscientiousness. So those are, and, depending on who you are, you may be highly dominant, highly influential, or highly steady and supportive and highly conscientious and so different as you can imagine.
Different types of attorneys have different personality types depending on that. Understanding how you fit in with [00:06:00] these different personality traits can help you and tell you a lot about where you should be practicing. So the first one was D which is dominance and and and so I'm talking today, I will talk to you about the different types of profiles and things that do.
In law firms, but dominance is this personality characteristic is very important to succeed in most large law firms, not all of them and large markets, large law firms. This characteristic is very important one. And dominance really is about things about being like direct very decisive in terms of how you make decisions very driven results demanding very task oriented.
So if you think about many of the best attorneys they have these characteristics. They're not just with other people, but with themselves, they're demanding and they get bad results. And they're very driven with themselves because they're driven with themselves. They make other people they expect other people to be driven and more of the.
But the largest and most competitive law firms, of course you would, and people that want to be hot in other practice settings, because this is a [00:07:00] characteristic that the legal profession really I think it takes very importantly and thinks is very important. People that have a high D are usually focused on getting things done they're very passionate and they want to lead and not follow.
They worked very hard to achieve. They would rather be working than not working, which I'm sure may not comprise everyone on this because not every attorney wants to be working a they want others to follow them, so they will get very involved in whatever they're doing and they don't get less likely to ask for direction.
The last for direction, but they would rather be the head writer on a brief or the person that's in charge of the transaction after a certain period of time. They want to be working all the time. They want to win. So when you look at the best attorneys, you'll typically see that they're talking about winning a lot.
That's just because that's the personality. They they want to win and and they thrive in environments where they're competitive, so they want to be competitive environments. And they're the kind of people that, you know, and they say most law firms are [00:08:00] like, shark tanks because everyone's competing with each other.
If they're not competing about one thing to find another thing to compete about. And and they're often scared about being vulnerable and and they want to, so they will sometimes hide the ball and that sort of thing. And then they want to be seen as successful and powerful. And and these are all characteristics of dominance and they're all characteristics of many times the attorneys are the best law firms and and the best attorneys regardless of the law firm are at, and their goal and aspirin.
So the attorneys, they may, th they may have been most cases have been dominant personalities there, for the longest time, they wanted to go to the best colleges to get the best they could in college. They wanted to go to the best law school and they wanted to get the best job.
They may be considered themselves and constant competition with other people, regardless of what they're doing. They and then they also get into the best schools because they're able to do better than those around them at stand out. And they often will have the best grades and most curriculum activities that are, that, they'll try to be president of this and that, and the strongest looking backgrounds.
And,[00:09:00] I don't know why people are that way, but they're, these are just natural characteristics of people that are dominant. If you're dominant, then, you're probably very suited. To, and it doesn't mean it's the only characteristic, but you're probably very suited to working in large law firms and they're doing well there.
And these people that, I think many cases they're that way because they want to prove something. They want to prove something to their self and others and their parents and but they're perfect for major law firms and major cities, most people that are.
Very successful. They, they need to prove something. I know I was reading about Elon Musk the other day, and, he was bullied as a child and white up until his teens, people made fun of him and pushed him around and beat them up and stuff for being nerdy and look at him now.
And and same thing with bayzos, I met someone not too long ago, that was in a club with him at Princeton and just said he was very, nerdy and socially awkward and all that stuff. So there's nothing wrong with that. People become very successful in many undertakings, they have something in their background.[00:10:00]
That's motivating that it could be proving something to their family or people that didn't believe in them. Who knows. But the thing is that the feedback you get from ultra competitive law firms and high pain law firms is often not that great. So you subject yourself to long hours and so forth because you want to get that feed.
You want to get a little bit of positive feedback and you want to compete and you want to feel like you're achieving something and people killed themselves for it. I The dominant it's like the Spartans they will go into battle and they'll die. And just, they'll prepare and work all the time.
And and it's important in a major law firm. It's not every law firm attorney has to do that, but if you do want to work with. Mini competitive environments. This stuff should come naturally to you. So you should be asking yourself if you have these characteristics, because it's very difficult to get ahead.
And most of these things, if you're a wallflower you're not competitive, you need to be motivated. And I don't make up these rules. It's just kinda how it works. And I meet attorneys all the time that I can tell have no business working in large law firms and and frankly and these are the people [00:11:00] that I liked the best and and I've been in friendships with them and data them in the past.
And and and because they're actually much nicer people, many times to spend time with then the competitive attorneys that are, you're constantly thinking about work and stuff, and you're with competitive attorneys, but the attorneys that don't really belong. Firms are typically very nice.
They're not competitive enough. They're very willing to follow. They're just, they're not that driven. They typically don't have anything to prove to anyone often they had very good childhoods had. And they're just very kind of content. They get along well with others. And they may be very smart and gone to good law schools and have other abilities, but they don't necessarily belong in large law firms.
And so there's nothing wrong with that. And, people come out of the best law schools every year because he's law schools don't necessarily screen for that. They, they go to Harvard and Michigan and Columbia and all these other incredible law schools and and they're very good students test takers, but that doesn't require being confrontational.
They just having the dominant features. They th the, these law firms [00:12:00] with the people in them would eat them alive. And they do they, they go to big law firms and they. They they get spit, spit out like a virus and then they don't like it.
They're not happy and there's nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be smart, but just because you're smart, doesn't mean you're dominant and that's that, that's one of the things to think about, and that doesn't mean you belong. You don't belong practicing law. There's plenty of other settings where dominance and isn't necessary.
Many attorneys that go to teach law in academia, public service do clerkships even become judges and so forth. Not always that competitive, they're not dominant and but to be in most major firms and in big cities and stuff, you need to be, you need to enjoy competing with others and you really want to be able to get ahead and to work hard and you need to prove something and you need to make as much money as possible and achieve something.
Most big firm attorneys are motivated by the competition and they're often concerned about their hours and money and how they appear to the outside world and how competitive they appear to others. And that's just how they work. And that's [00:13:00] the mindset. It's interesting that I see attorneys and, the attorneys that work many times in the most competitive firms markets like New York and so forth, they would rather not practice law at all and be seen as practicing at a less competitive firms.
So they typically will either drop out of the practice a lot completely, or they will many times. Often more often than not going house, which is considered a cool job, but they don't want to they, they certainly don't want to, appear that they're less committed and so forth.
Not doing as well because they're competitive. So the, the attorneys will undermine others. They'll work harder than them, and they'll always try and be the best, the more competitive law firm you are at. The more you're going to be around other people that are trying to dominate you and undermine you and make themselves look better than you, even if it's unnecessary, they'll do it socially.
They'll do it politically, but do it with your work quality. They'll do it within you, endo and rumors and all sorts of things. And it's just part of the game because you're, when you put very competitive people together, that's what you get. And that's one of the reasons. That the companies pay the most money for the attorneys from the best firms, because they're doing that not only with each [00:14:00] other, but they're doing that with the people that are posting their clients and what those best law firms do is they they'll channel that motivation and get it.
Don't make a profitable they'll get lots of hours out of. Nah, praise you when you build a lot of hours and not praise you and you don't. And and that's how they do it. And and you need to be dominant for most large law firms. So it's just, it's the way it works. And law firms, you can go into a law firm and talk with all sorts of enthusiasm about if you're interviewing with how you're trying to get ahead, or, what, how you had the most hours or how you did this the best, not the best.
And and law firms love that. So they will try to challenge that. They'll try to channel that into lots of hours and you continually making your work product better than your peers and so forth. Law firms. We'll channel this natural characteristic into your need to feel important and better than your peers.
And and also to ultimately explain you and make more money. And even as partners, even partners are. Exploit is a tough word to use. I don't know that's really accurate. Cause you could stay [00:15:00] that every doctor is exploited. Every salesperson's explosive pointed.
I I don't know that's the correct word, but that, that you will be to some extent you're in a large law firm, you're going gonna, you're going to have to play the game and even partners are exploited. They have to they, they're constantly on the, pressure to bill more hours and to do more of this and more of that.
And and and it's just a hamster wheel and and and you people that do it the idea of fulfillment comes through that. And and that's what the F what the firm is cha channeling, then it too. And and because of that, The dominant thing you also you need to get strength from that, the idea of competing with others and not and not feel we can pay it.
So what happens is when you get into these kinds of environments, if you're not necessarily Tom and you may become, even if you are dominant, if you're in a too dominant or competitive environment, you may become stressed and unable to handle the, the ramifications of, mentally working Soviets hours and comparing yourself to your [00:16:00] peers.
And and so I've seen this happen just countless times with with attorneys it's that don't necessarily belong in that type of environment. So if you want to be part of a large law firm you're generally going to need to be very dominant and really. And be that way.
Competing with others, task-oriented partners need to have as much business as possible. And if you don't feel like you're making the most money most dominant people will leave. There'll be motivated by money. There'll be motivated by the quality of, from And they're always going to want to be with better firms work, the better attorneys considered to be working with the most prestigious firms, partners will want to have the best clients.
And that just keeps going. You want to it's you're comparing yourself to others because that's just the mindset. And and I can't speak from a metaphysical point of view about whether or not that's a good thing. Most religions would tell you about, pursuing anything like that religions or philosophies spirit would say not, if anytime you pursue something outside yourself like that, you're, it's not going to lead to fulfillment, but for some people it [00:17:00] does.
And it can, so if that's something to think about and but many high people that are very dominant and I've seen it will conclude. But they don't want to work in the major loss. They look around them and and they'll see other attorneys that are working lots of hours and not becoming partners or advancing in their careers.
And and because they're so motivated they conclude that that they will be more successful elsewhere and or doing something else or they would, be able to really realize those T characteristics more doing something else. And and for them often they realize that they're so competitive.
It doesn't make sense for them to direct their energies inside a law firm, but they'll direct it elsewhere in stat. And so a lot of DS inside of law firms make the sleep. I saw it when I was practicing. W when I started at my first firm, it was, there were some very motivated people there, from Nate, they left very quickly to start businesses and do all sorts of things.
And of course I get as well, but the most motivated people sometimes don't believe that they want to put, they want to put that drive [00:18:00] elsewhere. And if you run your own business or you. You may have a more long preneur potential control over your time.
Then our attorney in a large law firm you have more potential to be if you want to do that to become important enrich like Jeff Bezos or other people that have done things like that. Then probably working as an attorney who takes care of businesses.
To some extent the law firm can constrain, if you're very dominant, the most dominant people may not last in law firms because of. They build a, they may not make partner the there's other attorneys that are deciding what's going to happen.
Whether or not the firms bringing enough work so there's things getting can limit you. Like any profession, there's an apprenticeship that can take a while, but at the same time, you can be very limited. But many law firms won't hire attorneys.
Who've started businesses, almost all of them while because they know that this, highly dominant. Personality, we'll take them again. And they will conclude that, working in a firm is not conducive to their drive. And they want to basically get all the rewards of their drive and control things in a different manner.
A lot of DS will, [00:19:00] the start businesses will go to law firms and try to steal clients or it's the same thing that law firms do with, they hire solo practitioners, who've left and started law firms. They just, they don't like starting them because that's another sign that they may mainly.
So they want high D attorneys, but not necessarily ones that are likely to leave. And LA law firms, hiring attorneys always calculate whether or not the person really is suited to working or practicing law in a large law firm and understand whether or not the person that's motive.
And Heidi enough to succeed. The best practice settings tissue traditionally for Heidi's are large competitive law firms solo practitioners are having their own firm being a a business owner leading companies or they can do very well at that.
They can be good prosecutors because they can, they get the authority and they can with. The role there, major cities are a good place for them. Many times if they're in the right from being a general counsel company can be good, maybe not depending on that and but the dominant personality needs to feel [00:20:00] important and they need to also feel like they're in control.
Like they're accomplishing something big compared to their peers. And it's funny when you look at, when I look at resumes, a very high D people, the law, we say stuff like I was the first day I got an award for doing this where I was, people told him, that's the best state ever seen.
And those types of characteristics are something that the typically large law firms you know, and and they can channel that into things. So the worst practice settings, if you're a very high D and you find yourself very competitive and you find yourself someone that is likely to to not to have issues with working in a.
In a loft, are, have very, if you find yourself in a job where you're unhappy, a high D is not going to like most routine government jobs people are kind of Bali equals in most routine government jobs. And they there's not a lot of room for showboating and they're typically the attorneys may not be as competitive with one.
Another academia can [00:21:00] be a bad place. Public interest can often be a bad place unless you're leading the public interest organization. Judicial can somewhat sometimes often be a bad place because you're not competing with other judges. And that, that could be a problem.
And but you're certainly in the center of attention. And so I don't know, that's a little up in the air, small town, legal practice also most in-house. Aren't the best jobs for a high D people. They typically will get restless and want to do something else. So most dominant people want to be the center of attention and feel like they're accomplishing more than others.
And they want to make as much money as possible and be seen as successful and powerful compared to their peers. And and these positions just often don't allow for that. And people just don't they're not like sticking out. They want to be around other people where they're with, they're very motivated and they can talk about their accomplishments and feel pushed by others.
And the best practice here is for typically a you're very good litigators, almost always a high dominant person. They D you can see it with a [00:22:00] writing and talking in court, but they're not always that way, but most of the best ones are the same thing with corporate attorneys they wanna lead deals for competitive kind of clients.
They bring in entertainment, same thing. They're competitive about who the clients are criminal law, a lot of family law people are that way labor and employment tied to summit. And but these, all these practice areas will allow the attorney to be the center of attention and to compete with others and to get a sense of winning and being the best.
And and they also tend to attract a lot of other very competitive attorneys especially litigation and corporate are two that like that. Some of the worst practice areas for people that are high D are often bankruptcy, I've noticed I think insurance coverage real estate tax.
You also have patent law trust in the states. Those patent law and trusting the states can be very almost, I don't know, behind the scenes is the right word, but they're they don't require a lot of confrontation with other people. And they're often very routine and the attorneys that do them aren't necessarily as competitive with each other [00:23:00] in comparison to something like family law, but again and so that collaborative practice areas are often not the best.
So to summarize a dominant, if you feel like you're dominant you may be the more dominant you are, the more suited you are probably to a big firm practice. And the practice here is related to that. The less dominant you are you may still be seated to big firm practice but at the same time you probably want to be in a certain practice areas and that.
That's when it's influenced, and this is the second of the four. And these will go a little bit faster now. And and and again, there's different practice areas that are more suited to the influencer personality and others, and someone who is an influencer has a desire to create their environment by influencing others.
They're optimistic they can be persuasive talkative they're often emotional and social and they have all these characteristics. They often enjoy being around others very much there. They don't want to be there. They're not afraid to be the center of attention.
They they tend to be very positive in their [00:24:00] environment. So they're a a positive force. They like when others approve of them that makes them happy. They like to talk about ideas. They they typically do not like spending time alone because they need to be able to influence others.
And and because of that con considered people that don't necessarily like a lot of ideas and are perceived to be disorganized. When they go to social events, they are always, asking who is going to be there and they're going because they want to meet people.
And and and the most suitable. Practice here for most influencers it's litigation litigate just write and express their ideas talk and be heard. They can they can get approval from others in court negotiations and so forth. Then. They can they enjoy going up against other attorneys in court and verbalizing their ideas and convincing clients about something and then bragging about what they've done later.
And all those things are exciting for them. And and they also like the idea when they're working that they're constantly interacting with others to get things done. And I w litigators will always like to talk about [00:25:00] how they w they want single-handedly won a case.
It was their idea, and they always take credit. And and it's funny actually, but it's what the best ones have as a characteristic. And the problem is that this personality type pop isn't always people that are very high influencers. Aren't always the best characteristics for large law firms.
They're not always the best attorneys for large law firms. And and because a lot of large law firms are actually looking for soldiers to do the work and not necessarily associates in the spotlight. And and and the same thing in kind of in law firms, there's partners that are service partners that are behind the scenes.
And so they're not always influencers. That's, you're, you have contract partners and counsel on things and maybe very good at the work. They're not into, drawing attention to themselves and taking credit. And and a lot of times, very high influencers sometimes will not survive in the largest law firms because they often are too eager for praise and so forth going into their careers.
They'll actually leave even if they're very good at what they're doing, if they're not getting coddled over in their career and. The most classic [00:26:00] kind of a high-end influencer move is litigators. That they'll move places because they want more courtroom experience or trial experience.
And and the move from state of that. And and the reason is most high influencers are unlikely to be happy in major law firms. So it's important for them to really have the opportunity to talk to people they won't be happy. In large law firms, because they'll often be behind the scenes.
It's like writing briefs and doing discovery and things and I'm working on memos and and they really need to get out of their shell and and be seen. And and so they'll often do things where they can be the center of attention, even if it means less money. And they're constrained by large law firms many times.
And and I've seen in my experience that many of the highest influencers don't do well inside of large law firms. I They have enough an influencer personality to write good briefs or to, that sort of thing. But they don't necessarily need to be the center of attention.
And yeah, and the people that survive as a litigator sometimes in large law firms, aren't. Not always the highest influencers they're often much more [00:27:00] comfortable behind a desk in a court and large law firms like this because many times the partners that are litigate here, so they influencers and they want they don't want people around that are challenging too much.
And same thing in large corporations many they, when they work for them many lawyers are more technicians or behind the scenes. And and they're attacking the work product technically over the other attorney that maybe coming out to them for whatever reason.
And then other practice areas patent law, tax risks, real estate technology transactions trusting the states and corporate law are really much better suited in many times for. That aren't necessarily influencers. They're probably going to be marched than being technicians and not grand standing.
And that sort of thing. And one thing to understand too, is that, if you're an influencer then it's, it can really depend, you, you could be happy in terms. So the first firm that I worked at was only litigators and the majority of the litigators in that firm tended to be influencers.
And then the next firm I worked at was primarily a corporate law [00:28:00] firm that had litigators in it. And and so there the, the litigators were actually most of the people inside the firm were actually. Influencers, they were different because the culture had been built around servicing large institutional clients and being in the background and not drawing attention to themselves.
So it just depends on the firm. You're with the different firms will award that influencer personality and other firms won't necessarily reward that personality. And so the best places for your influencers are really going to be anywhere. The practice settings are going to be. Where you can influence others and be around others, influencers get strength from being around other people.
And that is something that really helps him. So political office is good. Public interest is good. Many law firms welcome this personality sales jobs that do or do not require a law degree. Sometimes academics because the influencer can talk to other people and high influencers really want to be around others and and have the opportunity to shape me to the point of view and their social.
And they just, they really want and [00:29:00] crave environments where they can talk to others and influence them. And the worst practice settings are typically. Places where the attorney isn't around others and can influence him. So that would be like often, sometimes being a solo practitioner to some extent.
Depending on them, the solo practitioner, I dunno know, depending on the solo practitioner or the type of solo practitioner a that can also make a difference. And law firms that stifle the person's creativity are also not good and many corporate environments where the attorney of some may be faceless and nameless are not good as well.
Those can be bad. And th the big thing to remember is. Hi influencer attorneys want to have their ideas heard and they want to be around people who will listen to them and any practice area that doesn't allow them to verbalize and talk to others and communicate with others closely is like gonna make them feel like they're doing something wrong.
And and many influencers will leave firms. And you may be in the situation when they feel like their ideas are not being taken seriously or they, they're [00:30:00] not around people to discuss their ideas. The best practice areas for most influencers are going to be litigation depending on the type of corporate work some type of corporate work does allow for a lot of people to spend around time around each other.
But most of it doesn't, but some types of corporate work the entertainment law, like corporate generalist or different types of corporate where you're you may have a clients a lot or meeting with other attorneys can be useful, but other ones, not as much entertainment, law is a good practice area for influencers, criminal law family law, a very good one.
And then some of the worst pride and labor trust in the states, to some extent, if they can go out and meet people, A lot of different people, but most trusts in the states attorneys really aren't much of an influencers. And then and then just different practice areas where they can be the center of attention and compete with others and get a sense of winning and be the best.
And then I think the worst practice here is our practice here is where an attorney may feel isolated and as if they're not connecting with an influencing others. So sometimes real estate could be that way. Tax can be that way. Patent risks many types of [00:31:00] finance overly clerical or transactional work that doesn't necessarily involve people and influencing them can also be quite limiting for attorneys.
So it's important to understand if you're an influencer and that necessarily motivates you as well. And so the meaning of steadiness that's the S and the disc. So D I S C steadiness is most attorneys really and, it's the idea of being steady and in a supportive role.
So someone who is steady, it's interested in cooperating with others to complete tasks that support others, and also in maintain stability. They can be described by the words, cooperative, collaborative stable, consistent loyal patient all those sorts of words those words, all connote stability and steady personalities.
Don't like change. They don't want to offend others. They tend to be a dependable they'd like to be in a role where they support others. They don't like being the center of attention and promoting them. They feel secure following rules and in a role where they [00:32:00] will help others follow rules.
So these are all things that are important to us, that to a a steady person. And and those are things that you know, attorneys and large law firms typically need they need to be accepted by the group. And typically we'll like working with teams and cooperating and they like consistency, but they don't enjoy confrontation.
So the steadiness personality actually is something that I have found applies to a lot of lawyers because lawyers like to be in a role where they're supporting clients behind the scenes, and they're not necessarily. The center of attention, the best lawyers will really take a lot of pride in the fact that they're helping another person with their problems and solving it.
And so it's really more about the client than them. And and most middle-class professions, which, our attorney is one of them and most professions are middle class. And I don't mean that in a negative way. But it profession people like steadiness lawyers that work in most major law firms rather than on their own value, steadiness and being part of the group.
And the idea of going to good schools [00:33:00] to work for someone else centers around supporting the need of someone else in exchange for a steady paycheck and attorneys by their nature are representing the needs of others in the market. They're supporting them by protecting them from issues.
Most look out for their client's interest and try to card them against problems that might disturb the status. And then, if you're representing a client with transaction or a litigation matter, your goal really is to bring things back to a state of equilibrium for the client, so they can complete the transaction settle the case and so forth.
And a lot of attorneys will value studying this more than others. But if you're you value it a lot most of the attorneys would value. A lot of steadiness will typically go into transactional work I've noticed or they'll want to work with others where they feel like they're cooperating.
And and and a lot of, people that are natural attorneys will very aggressively gravitate towards rules and help their clients follow rules. And if you're not a natural attorney you may look upon your. To support others be more concerned with yourself and and certainly the a lot of attorneys are concerned with themselves, but the natural personality type of [00:34:00] someone's very good at it is about helping others and being motivated.
And and you need to really enjoy supporting others and solving the problems and contributing to the success of groups through your actions and being excited about solving the problems of others. And and most happy attorneys really will prioritize this over their own needs. And and if you're not motivated by that you're typically not going to be that happy practicing law.
And and one of the problems I think that has happened over the past several years 50 years, compared to what it was 50 years ago is that law has become more of a corporate type function, meaning it's starting to be run much more like large corporations are running themselves.
And it's become quite a personalized compared to what it may have been 50 years ago. Steadiness personality is really geared towards assisting others cooperative groups and not filling multitask and in a large law firm our attorneys need to support.
Others can often be pulled in a lot of different directions and an attorney maybe in a position of these [00:35:00] days or working with a corporation that never interacts with that. We're now we're in talks to anybody. And in the, the other attorneys that they work with, they won't be necessarily a cooperative atmosphere.
There'll be something different. And attorneys, there'll be in a kind of a hostile environment where people are leaving all the time and and so the attorney never feel safe. And so large law firms are often something. Many attorneys don't like because it doesn't many people do go into law because they want to, they do value this personality trait and and so they, they get into a law firm and they realized that this kind of trait of steadiness is really going to be rewarded.
And so they often want to go in house and they say they just want to work with one client and that's often true. And they want to feel like they're supporting the client and making a contribution and they want to feel like they're someplace steady. Yeah. Not to working with a group and and all this is understandable.
But it's really the opposite of what attorneys often find once they get in house cause companies go out of business, they merge, they hire and fire CEOs and general councils and so forth, soft [00:36:00] businesses get sued, close offices. So being in house actually. Not supportive, but in attorneys, many attorneys are naturally seeking that.
And what I did say earlier is that, 50 years ago, the law was much different and that was before large law firms got very large. Once they got arch came like corporations. And before that you have much closer relationship between clients and attorneys would join a firm and the firms were much smaller and they were just different.
And on that, where I said a lot of attorneys that work in a smaller to mid switching, things like it was constant grand rounds Rochester, all these kind of smaller to midsize markets. They often have much longer and have peers and just trying to work in the largest markets. A lot of that has fact that in the mid-sized markets, they, the attorney protect each other.
A little bit more of a steadiness R there's less pressure to make a lot of money, so there's not as patients in way suspend it. [00:37:00] And it's just not as much there's or maybe in other areas. A often will do much better. I think the attorneys often protected more because they're connected in the community.
I don't know all the reasons, but those are some reasons. And I've noticed that a lot of attorneys regardless cool are just much happier and enjoyed so much more in these markets. And and they really salivate like mad dogs about going, sir, you have much happier. So this is because firms and medium to smaller size market really support.
Natural kind of demand that are control. A lot of them do have for studying us. The best for most to feel secure yes, we're going to be government role. They have a lot of long-term employment, hopefully have long-term plans times for support roles inside of law firm. So those can be things like and sometimes even staff or working with attorneys doing [00:38:00] inside of a law firm, sometimes people even go into, sometimes recur of law firms or, human resources, is a better way of putting it.
There's just a lot of different jobs. You can do it when you sometimes the best attorneys and title maybe people that Practicing as attorneys public can be good if there's a lot of steadiness academia, Tamika, a lot of judicial impairments can be good. So I've seen people spend their careers working for judges.
I've seen full just support roles inside of companies. A lot of times are very happy working at, small family owned law firms. Like I said earlier, smaller of it is also a good one in many times, not as much conflict and any kind of market where, you know, that feels like they're supporting others and they feel secure at the same.
And and that's important secure and not like they're under attack all the time they want. And they're more likely to less money in exchange for consistency than they might have. And they're not concerned about drawing a house and do not necessarily. The limelight. [00:39:00] So the settings and you won't feel secure so large law firms can be very law firms that have over can be very company's turnover.
Conflict can be very scared. Things that kind of have dropped dead dates where they will visit generation get paid positions where the compensation is variable and unpredictable law firms and major cities a lot of turnover. So the idea is, that tourney really is looking for safety and studying.
And if they're getting that, then they, the leave when you hear these kinds of reasons messing with my compensation or they require this. You're really hearing someone say I value studying us and I'm not getting that, or I don't feel like it's here. And and so those are some. And they don't come predictable.
They don't they don't conflict. The markets will often conflict and the attorneys are unlikely to be happy in them. And the best practice areas are typically with the attorneys, not in conflict versus where they're allowed to work behind the team. They [00:40:00] often feel it's going to be things and, transactional practice tax, pat lawn, Theresa, and plastic supportive tax attorney, because they're actually to sit behind a desk, work a certain number of hour.
No, that they do this. They're going to be what it makes me different personality types. And I enjoy this. But to support me does, and then many times practice the attorneys in conflict with others and there's no losers and that things aren't. These are often going to be unpredictable in these, I don't know, horrible practice areas, but again, studying attorney, cause you can find it in some firms you can find roles, go study, but litigation criminal, family law.
I think trust in the states is one. I don't know that was there. But these put a attorney in conflict with other often predictable and so the typical attorney doesn't enjoy them. You just need to understand really the right kind of from a practice can make it make make a better career.
And then the following, the final one you [00:41:00] managed to cover is conscientious Nancy. And this is really fairly important for for most attorneys. And and it's, it's something that gave her that a lot of people will the case has come naturally. So conscientious being careful, cautious, calculating objective, systematic critical.
And if you're conscientious to want to produce work, that's criticized you get challenging assumptions you and searching, coming up with a, and by showing the expertise and the work you produce. If you're not that way, many times new attorney often do accurate work. They often especially summer associates and they don't do things and they're not very careful with their work.
And that's not a good trade for attorneys. Very generous in law firms and law firms expect, their clients expect well, very well. We need typos, grammatical errors or other issues. That's attorneys will often be very proud of produce, and it's often impossible to work in a [00:42:00] major firm and be taken seriously unless you're very so conscientious as a quick way often to distinguished from the poorest ones.
So not when I was litigating, you would always see the worst law firms, which work product, or wasn't carefully thought out where the the law was incited properly or their typos, everything comes back perfectly and larger. The client, the more conscientious you're expected to be smallest firms and low stakes family criminal matters before personal injury, low level insurance.
Those things are often, the work product. Isn't very good. Okay. Conscientiousness and and often times it's an attorney is very rushed and their work when people are very conscientious and then expect the work to be very well. And just to evaluate the work product, poor attorneys, nurses comparison, powerful their legal conclusions are well-reasoned they're more likely to win gig legal cases and do better with facts and so forth when you're conscious of attorney.[00:43:00]
So it's actually a very important character of attorneys I've seen most of the best attorneys are extremely conscience because to really think your things quickly, think through things and not adapt and be very careful, or they take a lot of pride in their work. This conscientious really natural.
Oh, that's ingrained in them and they don't need to be, they enjoy marking out papers and finding errors. We can contract documenting transactions and all that sort of thing. From our research and materials and and it's just, it needs BTU. Cool. I was taking this class with a professor and he was there and I was getting the best grade in his class, but he told me I shouldn't be an attorney.
And I was like, what are you talking about? He said look at these cops, you looked down and there was some guy, what can you underline? Like I said, this being an attorney, very, I don't know if he used to work extremely uptight with details and yeah. And for you And [00:44:00] that comes naturally to you now, I actually learned it and I became very good at it, but but honestly the truth is that this is a highly valued especially in large law firms attorneys make their heirs planning, generic.
They make an error of attack and errors by their attorneys and so forth. So we liked that. And if you don't then you're going to lose, you're going to get the bad side of D let's say, on the defensive, you're going to be sued for malpractice. And the best attorneys are also very calculating.
They're like chess planners. They can, they deadlines and and cert provisions in the contracts. The last second, that's not expecting all sorts of information to their advantage and and you need to thrive and should come naturally that these games don't come naturally. That you're not well-suited to being an attorney.
You need to be a calculator in time. And and you need to know that sometimes attorneys are overly calculating, and that people you're going to be against and you're going to, you're going to lose against partner. They rip up work. You're going to lose [00:45:00] things for your clients.
And it's just not a good thing if you don't have it, and this is something you can develop, but you need to be it really take a passion for details. And you can certainly practice settings other than large law firms for teaching your debate ideas and coming up with the theories and so forth.
And and I've noticed that a lot of law professors, I mean that they're not lawyers practicing, and they're thinking it's not as crisp. Open to new ideas and they come up with really brilliant things and that helps them. And it helps, law firms, so most the least conscience municipal find themselves working in facing branches or, know, or professions of legal skills, but aren't expected to produce flyers.
And that's as a general rule, and I don't know why it is, but the most conscious typically go to the best law schools. And often they get, because they have always conscientious with all the doing and they were going into tests and stuff. I don't know, but it's practice settings for your conscience or, big screen [00:46:00] anywhere work has been done at a very well places, a high emphasis on quality structured legal environments judges often reward that As soon as it can be very important.
So I most environments and people that weren't a top law school worked in top firms often do, are con all of them are law firms that do work for big companies or another. And the attorneys typically end up for the largest firms or with the largest client go where there's money.
But that, yeah, most liars and major law firms are very conscientious. If you are conscientious you're not conscientious. Just then, don't want to work these kind of environments, like high quality standards just port unstructured environments many small, some small towns you'll go crazy because you'll face him off.
You'll see. And being sent out, it's not good. And I'm saying that all consumer facing and conscientious consumer facing, like before consumer bank injury, different things, and there's some that are [00:47:00] really conscientious, but they're oftentimes more likely to be less conscious parents for major law firms because have to get work done quickly.
And it's just and practice here is typically are, can be a perfectionist hand with the law firm will allow them the time to do that. So it won't be firms that will only give a patent amount of time to write a patent. And the best pen attorneys often do is they feel like there's enough detail.
I don't know of any practice area where they feel like, the pay for doing good work. Sure for them. So this can be good, like Rissa pack. But often are the most conscious but litigation in conscientious creditor, partially being extremely conscientious. But if you're that be helpful and then the worst practice areas typically are on chances are you once were for money, if you're doing a consumer facing bankruptcy, personal injury, block high, maybe required to so the extra and and I would encourage every one of these [00:48:00] personality tests.
There's a ton of online, including one, we're getting ready that we've developed to BCG for attorneys. But it's really, you need to, for your personality strengths are to avoid practicing.
You're unlikely to do well, so I will take questions. I hope there's a lot of questions today. I'm going to take a quick break for just a couple of minutes. And then and then when I come back, I will answer questions about this or anything you guys have about girls about ladies about any of the questions career.
And this is favorite week because answering these questions I love these questions, but they're all autonomous hand and I'll answer questions that you guys thank you.
She has a choice. Hey, I want a green juice. The questions, just give me one second. I'm to stop this word docs. So one sec.
The ask you guys, any questions you have about anything because the questions are out very helpful for other people.
Let me just share my screen.
I'm practice and a [00:49:00] 15 paper.
Wow. I often feel frustrated or angry and jealous. When I see others from time, as I felt it should be past tense. I feel my supervisor plays favorites and other associates prefer working with women, et cetera. Exactly why, but they haven't because this sick, none of my partners had just ignored it. Okay. So that's actually a great question. And I get that question. So I always tell people. Okay.
Yeah, sorry about that guys looks like we lost the internet. I may have to Th this particular question was the first dude account. But it says I'm a 1520 person firm practicing. If you questions, if you could ask them again, let me let me just figure out that it goes back one sec.
Yeah, so I'll just the question. So this person brought on practicing in 15 summer associate app, and they're jealous when I see other sermons getting an assignment that fails should be passed on so forth. When I tell people when their goal really is to get to the next [00:50:00] interview to the next, and you're not, if you do get the next interview, the goal is to get the job.
It's a final interview. So this is what you do in interviews. When you're in an interview you don't ask or say results and you not get another interview with likely to resolve.
In another interview, we're getting higher.
So those are the two big things. That you say it, so you don't ask about
this, will I make sense about how it's connecting to snack? I ask I'm a mixture of share. Yes.
I want to ask about things. Number one second. Okay. Ask about I don't know, the term and things like it's going to leave it in their mouth. They're going to, they're going to want to hire et cetera, whatever. If those kinds of things are, the rule is when you're a Somerset is you basically want to you want to ask about, you don't want to ask you to want, you don't want to use things.
Unlike it'll make it unlikely for you to get an offer.
So you need to,[00:51:00] can you possibly can to get an officer? So that means no sour grapes? No. No entitlement.
No no no, no things that show you problems
and the way to basically the way to make sure you avoid that stuff is basically I recommend. Asking these sorts of questions, I recommend just doing your work and and not worrying about, and let your work speak for itself. Sometimes being in the background time and not being close is actually a good thing would recommend doing what you possibly, whatever you possibly to do that.
So that was helpful. Thank you. So the question I just answered. Okay. So this next question is let's see here and I apologize for us. We lost the internet here. I don't know exactly what happened. I'd be nice to have backup internet. It says my disc assessment characterized me as extremely conscientious and study my practices.
Doggy been corporate work and yes. My corporate work in large law firms. Let's see here. Does this [00:52:00] seem like a good fit, would like to experience relating to perfect? Yeah I think
and steady is actually.
Dying of that, your experience actually just means that you're very conscientious scan stat and study, and those are good character for you. So I personally would recommend doing whatever you can to improve on to stay in the kind of work that you're doing aspects of the work you don't, that.
Work where able to get exposed to high level work where you, the quality of your work is appreciated and praise you and you like it as is. I would, if I was you, I would avoid working in environments where your conscientiousness and steadiness rewarded. I don't know what titles you held but if you're just very conscious as in steady and you're not.
Yes or influence and that sort of thing and domineering you might be a very good service partner or counsel or in a senior role do that. And sometimes people that are extremely talented, like you all could be even, part [00:53:00] large law firms and business comes to them.
And so I think, I sounds like you're in the right fit. It's actually good that you're trying to do. Exactly. What a large loss want to see. Okay. Let's see. Another question. Will this deck be available? Yeah, so we are actually taking all these techs and with their BCG there's also, if you look up the title of this webinar, there's a little bit it's based on.
You can put that there as well. Talking about a transactional lawyer who mentioned many type of finance positions, or you mentioned many other finance was the type positions you mean under it? Well by many other types of finance is a is a position. There's people do things like put together agreements for packaging, carrying a bunch of leases and selling them there's up.
All sorts of, there's, secured, fine transactions. There's, there's all sorts of different finance practice groups, so you can find most of those on BCG, but most that would be finance.
This is a interesting question. As a lawyer who graduated [00:54:00] at or a school, can you recall. But a good law firm. Absolutely. Lots of attorneys go to credit Corp will say, don't even do well. And I ended up in the top law firms. Sometimes it takes awhile, but legal career to take off. What typically ends up happening is if you do very good work and you're able to work on behalf of clients, when you're able to make clients like you, then then you can certainly You can get into a big law firm just by as a partner as you get more and more business and probably, lateral to bigger and bigger firms, another way you can get into a better law firm, you can specialize in.
It's in demand. At different points in time, different practice areas are very in demand. And and then if you're doing that practice here in specializing you can move into a better law firm. One of the things that I would recommend for all attorneys really is to do what you can to always to specialize in in this area is, where you're you.
Any type of work as long as it's not consumer facing and and end up in a big kind of con affirm and [00:55:00] there's good law firms consumer-facing but the key really is it's a special and to get very good and knowing in your practice areas. The mistakes that a lot of people make is they they will try to go into a practice area where where they're not getting Reno where they're where they're doing a lot of different things.
So you need to specialize to ended up in a good law firm and then get better and known in your practice areas. And that's us pieces of advice I can give you do. And to do that.
This is a question, is it PhD and law idea at 30 on a continual liar afterwards, but to law firms when hiring a lawyer. That's three years for the HTB hinder my career for that. Yes. I do think Hendry your career, it's counterintuitive. Like why would a PhD comes right down to it?
The practice of law. It's certainly is intellectual. And I don't mean that in a way in a way of telling intellectual, but it's more than theory the problem with PhDs and so forth. You're getting a look at this stuff and [00:56:00] I don't mean that in a negative way. And I think it would be interesting to get a PA problem is it's very.
It's you're more motivated by academia and so forth. Then you are I practicing a certain firms. Don't even like it, if you do a clerkship because they think they offer parents and clerkships. So it just, it depends. I don't think a PhD would probably be the best thing for you. The PhD. It's just a different thinking process.
Even today when I talked to academic attorneys and professors and stuff there, it's the thinking big pharma stuff is just fair. You and actually all good. So as you cut to the chase and there's all that. And a lot of theory and a different style of thought and academic, and after an academic, there's nothing wrong academia, if that's what you want to do.
But 30 and, and you want a PhD is probably not your best idea. Just because it's is a career for women in terms of gender bias. How do they get [00:57:00] a position? A lot from lawyers are great, and there's lots of very well-known and very good corporate liar over liars. And there's a demand for corporate liars in law firms. And they they corporate, it does the leaders of companies and women, general councils and lots of women insideables.
And inside of companies that take business from, so I think being a woman, corporate attorneys are great idea. They're there. I've definitely heard about gender bias past and but I do know that if you find the right firm. To a very well, and in all areas of society right now, there really is a push to to try to diversify the ranks of attorneys.
Whether it's it's women in corporate law or different groups of people and the block farmers are. I conform and be very similar to their clients. And so that it's just, in terms of the diversity of people and allowing five different groups of people and to get ahead without bias.
And so there is to some extent and most law firms and [00:58:00] today there's some in, for mistakes I've made. And and so that's a woman attorney. And you may find you're being more taken out of business pitches and learn then the new that you would have in the past. So I think it's a great point and I think you are a chance, getting ahead.
The next question is I've confused between getting an elementary and a good law firm. What should I do? What will help me be better for. The law firm is the best thing to do. The LLM is often it's, there's certainly are, there is, are important things you can Lam, but practicing law and affirm is usually much different than then the kind of work, you would do just getting in growl.
Cool. I think you're more likely to be better off a giant, a good firm. LLMs are often and I don't say this in an, but they're often considered a make-up degree, so you can put