[00:00:00] Today I'm going to talk about the three qualities that Warren Buffett looks for when he's hiring people. And I think this is actually a pretty interesting presentation and and I did some reading about how he hires people in the past.
[00:00:13] And these are three things that I also talked to law firms quite a bit, as well as my own recommendations about how to do hiring. So I think Guild enjoy this presentation. And what we'll do also is after I will take questions and you can ask questions about this, or pretty much anything you have questions about.
[00:00:30] And I think this is will be interest. Webinars, then we also recently put a podcast up about it, but I've also heard this same quote from other people too. I watched a presentation of Michael Eisner and I'm sorry, by Bob Iger. And he actually picked this up from Bob biker or from Michael Eisner, who was his former boss.
[00:00:51] And he said that, you're looking for three things, gentleman and person, you're looking for intelligence energy and. And if they don't have the [00:01:00] last one, don't even bother with the last one, the first tip. And I tell them everyone here has the intelligence and energy. You wouldn't be here otherwise, but integrity is up to you.
[00:01:11] You weren't born with it. You can't learn in school. And I really liked that quote. I when I graduated from law school, My but the speaker was Jesse Jackson and he was his son was in my class and and he said his whole talk was about, can you be trusted? And and he, the way he talks is very algorithmic because he keeps coming back to the same lines and so forth.
[00:01:35] And you kept saying, can you be trusted? Can you be trusted after storing? And he basically made what he was saying is that the, the best people. And that's really what it comes down to with everyone is whether or not you believe you can trust them. And in my life I think that that I've noticed that there's people I trust and people I don't.
[00:01:55] And many times, depending on the circles you traveling there's a lot more people [00:02:00] that you can trust or there's a lot more people that you can't trust. You definitely have to be careful. But when I think about the attorneys that I've encountered, that really done the best and the ones that survived that had all three.
[00:02:12] And and I, when I think about the people that have failed most re missing, at least one of the three and trust is so interesting. I'll talk more about it today, but excuse me. And this isn't certainly talk necessarily about morals, but, when I don't trust someone and I really believe and realize that I can't trust them, I just cut them off and I don't have anything to do with them anymore.
[00:02:33] And and, it doesn't mean that I don't talk to them or but I don't trust them. So I don't trust them with information. I don't trust them with I don't let them closed. And I know that they're they're dangerous people. And I see that a lot. I see that with.
[00:02:46] People. And a lot of times people will let slip things that show that they can't be trusted or they'll say everyone's out for themselves. Or I get this. And I did that. And and when you see the people can be trusted it's it's very dangerous and you have [00:03:00] to be very careful law firms often can't be trusted.
[00:03:02] The people you're working for companies you're working for are, can't be trusted bosses, can't be trusted. Your peers can't be trusted sometimes and you just have to be very careful. Deceit as an attorney you really need to have all three of those things. And and and some are more important than others.
[00:03:18]The first one of course is intelligence and, being an attorney does require a lot of intelligence and intelligence means different things. Intelligence could mean. The ability to learn over time. It could mean all sorts of things, but and it doesn't mean necessarily where you went to law school.
[00:03:36] It doesn't mean being at the top of your class in law school doesn't even mean having the highest IQ. But the practice of law does have a lot of elitist associated with it. And so if you do want to work in the highest pain law firms in the largest cities with the largest clients they're gonna be looking for the most part for book intelligence.
[00:03:57] And and what that means is they're going to be [00:04:00] concerned about how well you did in school when you're recently out, not when you get too far out, but recently, if you're, fairly new at the market, Be concerned about that. And they want you to look good on paper and and then they do want a natural intelligence associated with a high IQ, which is the ability to figure out complex problems and and come up with solutions.
[00:04:20] I had two very interesting experiences with attorneys that were very smart that I hired to work for me before. And and th the smartest people, like the ones that, have gone to law school when they're 16 and graduated at 19 was one of them. I think he went to Berkeley and he also got into Harvard.
[00:04:35]And another one that I think was third in his class. He knew he was one to three in his class. Cause they give out an award for the first or the third students and they don't tell them which one's first and third extremely intelligent, like the ability to. Problems and cut the solutions very quickly.
[00:04:50] And that makes a difference. It's it, having a lot of people like that around can make a huge difference and those were exceptional attorneys but they certainly had other issues, but in terms of [00:05:00] that abilities that made them very good. So if you're up against people like that, that can be an advantage.
[00:05:05] And that's some of the things that the largest law firms attract and they keep people around like that provided they are able to build business and stuff. But I would estimate that probably, that you take. Less than 20% of people in the ICU. So within the top 5% of the population really work that hard and apply their intelligence and school work achievement, and doing the best they can.
[00:05:25] And and I just remember when I when I've gone to reunions and things and and watch the people that I've known have done a lot of very smart people never do much because they they don't apply those that intelligence correct them. They don't make good decisions with it.
[00:05:39]What makes the best attorneys really good, I think is that they're not just smart, but they apply those smarts and they're able to make very good decisions with the information that they get. And and that's why the people that have promise to do well we'll get the highest salaries out of school and they do well throughout their career.
[00:05:59] And the thing [00:06:00] is if and none of this has to be negative. It's okay. It's really just to show you that you have to play on a Plainfield where you're going to do well. If an attorney. That's, not super intelligent, just thrown in with a group of very intelligent attorneys.
[00:06:13]And can't, graphs, concepts, they're very complex, quickly put together connections between ideas and then apply them in ways that are obvious, but also non-obvious then many times they really don't stand a chance. They're just not, they're not moving fast enough and and they'll lose.
[00:06:30] And and if you've ever seen an extremely intelligent attorney against one, that's not there, it's not good. And it's it's just the way it is. And so there's certainly lots of practice areas where you don't need to be super intelligent like that. Almost all practice areas.
[00:06:43] There are people that you don't have to be intelligent. That's really the kind of skill and level of understanding that the best law firms are looking for. And and so another case that I thought was very interesting to is I was once represented by an average attorney. In a case before the court of appeals and the [00:07:00] attorney from the other side was so intelligent that they were literally, they were two steps ahead of the appellate judges.
[00:07:07] They were two steps ahead of my attorney. They were out thinking out reasoning and and frankly we had a much better case in my opinion. But any arguments that judges had, they were turning on their head. And then when my attorney took the podium he didn't even understand some of the arguments and was so disabled that, his collar was up and some other stuff, he just wasn't in good shape and it was embarrassing.
[00:07:30] And and but anyway the party posing, my appeal was still wrong and the court ruled on my behalf. It's still it was I th the guy's argument, my attorney was so good. I didn't think I had any reason really to, when I didn't think I would win. What you really have to do because intelligence is so important to the practice of law is you have to find a practice here at the tutes, your smarts and your interests, where you're actually excited to learn more over time and specific areas.
[00:07:58]The practice do not [00:08:00] require a ton of like book smarts, but they require other types of intelligence. It's very rare personal injury realize. And the fact that someone was hurt, that's the case. Then there's a lot more to it. You have to prove damages and so forth, if someone's hurt and there's causation, you're going to get into court.
[00:08:15] And and so regardless of how intelligent the other side's attorney's are or how complex their arguments are most personal injury attorneys can get to trial and and then they. Very emotional persuasive arguments, which is a skill that a lot of very smart attorneys don't have, but that's also a skill.
[00:08:32] And they can use skills like negotiation, persistence, selling a jury, maybe bullying the other side and more, and these are skills. The average personal injury attorney thought might, would probably have a very difficult to Cate case if they were trying to, fight a contract and so forth being represented by a large corporation, it just wouldn't work.
[00:08:51]Same thing in family law and family law attorneys are very exceptional and there's a lot of very good ones. But most of them, didn't go to the best law schools, which is perfectly fine. I don't [00:09:00] think there's anything wrong with that. Because it makes skills of use of skills other than the raw intelligence it's they have very rare talents and they they have the ability to tap into emotional arguments and.
[00:09:10]And turn them back on the other side and intimidate people, get their clients. Enthusiastic when they shouldn't be. So there's all sorts of things about being a family law attorney that require a different set of skills. And they also require, the ability to be interested in that.
[00:09:23] So your average bookish attorney is not going to be that interested in that type of work, but but they might be, they might be interested in that kind of conflict. When law firms hire attorneys without the right firepower what happens. No, it was those attorneys will quickly get run over by partners, associates, clients, and and it can make a difference, so you have to realize what your skill is your skill working in the largest law firms with the most intelligent attorneys? It might be but maybe it's a different type of skill. The, if you're in a company you're hired an attorney, for the most part if you're hiring an attorney without, that's not very smart that attorney, a lot of times is going to be [00:10:00] defeated by the other side.
[00:10:01]I'll tell you one quick story that I was just thinking of. I had a Attorney wants that or someone that I was working with that had a relative that was an attorney and the attorney had gone to, I don't know where they not a school, but some, barely accredited school or maybe not even accredited.
[00:10:17]It, Colleen was like, where are you? And he's I'm at city hall. And he's what are you doing there? And he's I'm looking up the the code for the traffic case. I'm organized like why don't you just look it up on your computer? And he said I really like to kinda, get in front of the code and actually see the code in the, in where it's applied.
[00:10:30] And I was like, that's just ridiculous. And this guy was able to pass the bar, but we do stuff like that. And and that's just not smart. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. If you think about it, but anyway but I wanted to tell you about two super intelligent attorneys that encountered in my career.
[00:10:43]One of the attorneys, I was the youngest to ever graduate from top 10 law school. And out of his top 10 law school, I think graduating Berkeley at night nicotine and and he couldn't get hired. So he was actually recommended to work for me by rabbi was close with.
[00:10:55] And then the other attorney I, again, the guy that was number one, two or three in his [00:11:00] class, and and that guy didn't want to join a large law firm and he wanted to work regular hours and play video games with his girlfriend when he wasn't working. And so I I, I.
[00:11:09]Into some major cases I was working on against major law firms. One of them was I dunno, it was a, like a major wage hour, not major, but, it was a bunch of independent contractors or something that decided they, they should have been employees, even though they were days wouldn't matter.
[00:11:25] But and but both of these guys for apple rapidly absorbed the information and they came to conclusions and made arguments to properly resolve these cases against, big firms. And they were able to do this without a lot of briefing and only through phone calls and just really figuring things out very complex laws that other law firms hadn't been able to figure out.
[00:11:46]They cut through things and understood the solution very quickly. And I've seen very good attorneys do that before. When I was practicing, I once saw an attorney that was negotiating with another company and they were, they thought there was hundreds of millions of [00:12:00] dollars in liability against them.
[00:12:01] And he spent a weekend studying this company and everything and was able to figure out, or that whatever happened that the other, the company actually owed them money. And so everyone was very nervous about it. So there's things like that. And then there's actually. And that's one of the examples right there that I was seeing the screen, just a very smart attorney and they had other attorneys like they were just very good.
[00:12:22]Some of them really almost just for paid to sit around almost and think and it's very interesting when intelligence is important. And then the, I once worked with a a very smart tax partner in New York and and the a few associates and another part, and I worked entire summer on our tax problem.
[00:12:38] And in a few weeks in, we we didn't understand what to do. And we spent, hundreds of hours research and debate and trying to come up with a solution. And and towards the end of the summer, I was speaking with a tax partner about an unrelated matter. You asking what I was working on it re refill, explained it to him.
[00:12:51] And he spent about 10 minutes, maybe not even that reviewing the file and then within a few minutes I was thinking he just blurted out a solution and the time [00:13:00] back then was probably about $500, but he ended up saving the client millions of dollars. And and if you think about the hundreds of thousands of dollars that went into that before he did it.
[00:13:08]Without his help, you probably never gotten a solution. So intelligence can be a massively important for you. So you have to understand when you're trying to practice law you have to know where you, where do you fit in. And the competing against the most intelligent attorneys, isn't really no different than club basketball player, trying to play with a bunch of NBA stars.
[00:13:27] It just doesn't make sense. And all these people well, and I'm not telling you to, leave your dreams behind or anything to that matter, but how many people want to compete at a level where maybe they're not ready or never, they won't do well. And it doesn't make sense. Because you're not going to, you're almost always going to lose.
[00:13:43] And it does. Why would you do something where you're going to lose now? That's not to say that. There's nothing that there's something wrong with trying, you can't get your place. And I was listening to a guy speak last night who is about ready to release a book that's being distributed to [00:14:00] all of these, every Walmart in the country, I don't know.
[00:14:03] And just, there's an S like porn on these speaking tours and doing, and he's on a television show and he's making a lot of money and he's got everything. But he said something to me that was very interesting. He said, I bought, I've never been. The smart kid in the class, I've never been a smart, but what I've done that other people never done as I've worked much harder than everybody.
[00:14:23] And and that has gotten me results and that may work. It does work but not if you're swimming in the wrong pond, so I don't, I never would have had the ability to, I would like basketball. I used to love playing basketball. I'd never would have had the ability to compete with NBA stars.
[00:14:37] It just didn't happen. Yeah. Generally you're going to be much better at working with attorneys in our practice area that has the same mix use of your skills and intelligence and you just need to make use of your skills and do the best you can. And frankly the most challenging practice areas the largest and most selective firms are going to require the highest intelligence and I'm not making eugenics type arguments.
[00:14:58] But what I'm saying is [00:15:00] that, that, practice areas that are not consumer facing, which are I say they're not consumer facing. It means you're dealing with large companies are things like corporate commercial litigation, patent prosecution, where you're dealing with, guess inventors, but it can be bankruptcy for companies tax for companies or risks I antitrust are require that They're going to the companies and they've had a lot of money and the bigger, the farm the more intelligent you're going to have to be for the most part to keep up and to get hired.
[00:15:27] And then there's other practice areas that are more consumer facing, which are things like personal injury labor and employment insurance defense, to some extent, immigration consumer litigation, consumer bankruptcy criminal law and where the fees are lower. And and there's different skills that come into play.
[00:15:43] So it's just a different type of job. And the people that have been would be good at corporate probably wouldn't be good at criminal law. They just, these practice areas attract different types of personalities and it's, there's just different types of people doing different types of [00:16:00] work, nothing against that.
[00:16:01] And I don't making that enough in a special way. But what I am telling you is that, if you're really interested in criminal law, But you think you should be a commercial, a corporate attorney that may not make sense. And and right now at this particular point in time, every time the economy does very well and attorneys are looking for corporate jobs and getting corporate jobs and getting raises and moving into bigger firms from smaller firms, all the litigators, and everybody wants to suddenly move into corporate.
[00:16:29] And but most times they went into litigation because they liked writing and they liked reading and they like fighting or whatever they think is involved. And to suddenly go into corporate is not necessarily a good move it's it can actually be harmful because it's a different thought pattern.
[00:16:46] I yesterday I was talking to a guy that is renting like a vacation house for me. And and he w I can tell from his personality that he was a finance type guy and, had gotten an MBA and so forth. And I can just, I'm not saying [00:17:00] magical abilities, but, most of the time when I there's a certain personality, that kind of goes along with that, and a certain style of thinking that's communicated when you talk to people like that.
[00:17:08] So I picked that up right away. That guy would not be a good litigator probably. And I would probably not be good at what he does. So it's just different people have different personalities and you have to really go in what you do well at. Lots of personal injury attorneys that never worked for anyone that make much more money than almost all law firm attorneys I've ever met.
[00:17:28]I know people that are doing immigration that never practiced in a law firm and started their own law firms and bringing in millions of dollars a year and have these, national operations with attorneys and paralegals all over the country. So all this stuff you can do, you don't need to have you don't need to work in a big firm to be successful.
[00:17:45] And immigration of course, is all these practice areas require a lot of smarts, but they require, a lot more in-person skills. They require a lot of different things than other types of practice areas, many times And the ideas that, in, in consumer-facing practice areas it's often gonna [00:18:00] involve other intangible skills and that the skills and other practice areas may not have.
[00:18:05]These can be things like the ability to intimidate the ability to play games to make emotional arguments that get people riled up to intimidate the emotions or the other side to be persistent to where the other side down to follow the rules to make good presentations Inmar, and in consumer-facing practice areas these sorts of personality skills are much more valuable than a lot of corporate related practice areas where your personality and so forth corporate facing practice areas aren't as important.
[00:18:32]So that's the load on our intelligence. And I certainly apologize if I offended anyone that wasn't. My intention at all. But I will say that, that you have to decide oops, let me just go back here. You have to decide what's best for you. Like Warren buffet says, he hires people that are intelligent, but you have intelligence means different things.
[00:18:50] And so there are plenty of attorneys in New York city alone that went to Yale law school and practice family law. There's a there's people that I know personally and Los Angeles that [00:19:00] practice family law. And we went to Stanford and Harvard law school. It's you have to hear the practice here that makes you happy, where you feel like your intelligence skills are being.
[00:19:07] Made where your skills and your intelligence are being made the most of. Yeah, that may not mean being in a practice area where you're in a room and, thinking, and maybe, a little bit more consumer-facing I just make use of other skills. So just think about that because you'll do much better if you're making use of all forms of your intelligence, not just your mind, but your, your social skills your drive and other things to be interested in something.
[00:19:33] The second one is the best attorneys need energy. And I really like this energy idea. And and I once Tony Robbins, once done and I heard him say it. He said that you know that when you sell it up on stage and stuff, he's selling two things, he's telling his ideas, but he's also selling this energy.
[00:19:49] And so you have energy to sell. And what I'm doing right now is a form of energy. Like I'm talking to you about something that, that this, because I'm very energetic and excited about what I do [00:20:00] for a living. I wouldn't be doing this probably a five. An insurance attorney, I would not be talking to people and answering questions cause I wouldn't like it.
[00:20:08] So I may have the intelligence to be an insurance attorney, but it's not, for me. It's not where I get energy from. So you need to go into a practice area and do something where you get energy. And there's lots of things that give you energy. Just like the Stanford attorney that you know, that I know that worked at actually Quinn Emanuel for several years and then became a family law attorney that gives him energy.
[00:20:27] You have to do work that gives you energy and S and I don't know how much I can emphasize that because I think it's so important. And I think that there's so many attorneys that go through life and their careers doing things that don't give them energy. And it's actually a very sad, it's it's sad.
[00:20:43]I see people. Dragging themselves into office buildings and there's just no enthusiasm really, and they don't have the energy. And so the two extremely intelligent attorneys are hard to work for me were brilliant, but they had no energy one wanted to use his astonishing intelligence for only a [00:21:00] certain number of hours a day, five, six hours a day, and then go home and play video games.
[00:21:03] And and that's one of the reasons why he never wanted to work in a major law firm. He would have been a terrible fit and he knew it. So he was smart. He took a job with me and now he's a personal injury attorney which is probably even better for him. But so the, there's really a prejudice to in the market for younger attorneys and younger attorneys.
[00:21:20] The reason there's a prejudice in favor of them is they're bright eyed and bushy tail. They're excited. They believe in the future. They want to work hard. They want to impress people. They they, they want to get ahead. They they want to learn. All of these things that are very valuable.
[00:21:33]Investigated by this is just insane, but by the department of justice in Washington, DC in a formal investigation, because we had ads where law firms were saying they wanted a one to five years experience. And for whatever reason the government thought that I had something to do with with all of this which I think someone had complained and they were just going through the motions, but, that's just how law firms are.
[00:21:55] They want people with one to five years of experience. I don't set these rules sometimes it's more [00:22:00] in there actually because of the market right now. It can actually be a lot more than that. It can be, if you're a corporate attorney there, they're interested in corporate attorneys for 10 plus years of experience, but it's, it depends on the market, but generally they want people that with one to five and that's always been The rules because of their enthusiasm and their energy.
[00:22:17] And just look at the energy that most young attorneys have compared to older attorneys. As they get older, they get cynical. They want to go in house. They're less focused, they've given up. It's just, it's not fun. The older and less than an older attorney is able to get a lot of business.
[00:22:32]It's gonna be very difficult for them to be marketable as they get older. And and that's just part of it and and younger attorneys, they're, many times willing to work hard. They don't have families to get home to, they have a lot of passion and at some point they may lose all this energy and become less marketable, so just something to think about. Finn attorneys selling their intelligence in the market they're also selling their energy and enthusiasm and ability to get things done and try to get results. So I remember. I don't know, [00:23:00] several years ago, it wasn't that long ago, maybe five, six years ago, I called UCLA law school to interview some law students because I wanted to hire some new attorney.
[00:23:07]We'll work in our office on some things. And and some of the people that I was interviewing had great grades and and by all, appearances, they would have been awesome additions. And and so I called them in and I interviewed them. And these were. It was the fall and these people had not gotten jobs.
[00:23:24] And when I interviewed them all of them smacked energy they just lacked a lot of energy and they were just dud and there was no, a handshake and they would look tired and and really having that energy it's just something that the most successful attorneys need and and if they don't have it then then it's not good.
[00:23:41] And look around you at the attorneys that you see doing the best. And most of them have a lot of energy. They get up early, they get up at, very early to work and they work very late or they're working every weekend. And then they're, prioritizing their body and health and stuff.
[00:23:54] So they do well. And these are all. Really important characteristics, you need to have energy. And the [00:24:00] thing is one of the things that I thought was interesting for me, and this is just a personal story, but I like this story is when I started practicing law, when I was practicing law it was all I could do to get into the office.
[00:24:11] So nine or nine 30 and I would certainly get there maybe a little bit before. I don't remember, but I started doing this. I liked it so much that I would find myself getting up unprovoked, at four 30 or five and starting work. And I'd never done that with anything.
[00:24:25] I'd never done that when I was in school. I never done that when I was practicing law, but suddenly I liked it. So if you'd like something and you have energy, that's great. You should like it and you should like what you do and have energy. Just think about the energy and attorney needs and and what you'd expect.
[00:24:39] If you were trying to hire an attorney, you'd want someone who believes in you and who is going to do their best to get things done from you. And you wouldn't want someone who doesn't try their hardest or doesn't put in the extra time when necessary or cuts corners. That energy and it's very important.
[00:24:54]I prioritize in my career and in my life making sure that I'm [00:25:00] doing everything I possibly can to keep my energy up. And I'll tell you about that in a moment. But just keeping your energy up and and energy is like a very intangible thing. I think certain people have a natural energy and they, you can feel it when you walk, when they walk into a room, you can feel it when you're standing by them.
[00:25:17] And and if you want to be hired and get ahead in your career, you need to have a lot of energy and enthusiasm and drive regardless of where you're working. And it's really your responsibility. To do what you have to do to keep your energy up. No one in most law firms is going to tell you to things like, avoid drinking or using abusing drugs or other substances.
[00:25:37] All those things slow people down if you drink alcohol or too much alcohol and if you have an addictive personality and you take him into drugs, so it's most take things, I don't know, Ritalin and things now, but it used to be when I was younger, people were doing things as bad as like harder drugs on that to keep going.
[00:25:54] And that always backfires. It's a known people. We're superstars worked major firms and, [00:26:00] do things like smoke crystal meth in the bathroom. It was just a victimless. And it kinda catches up with you. Drugs catch up with you through drugs. It'll slow you down and people get prescription drugs all the time that slow them down and make them much less effective than they should be.
[00:26:13]And and there's nothing wrong with any of this stuff and there's nothing wrong with drinking. There's nothing wrong with taking prescription drugs, but you have to be very careful about anything that dulls you too much because you have to, use it to make you more effective and not less effective.
[00:26:27] And and and so that's a fine line, but you need to be cognizant of all these things, anything you're putting in your body you have to exercise. I think that exercising is very important for keeping your energy up. Okay. Almost all of the best attorneys that I know but are very good at bringing in business that are very good at I have always exercised even when they're at the busiest time of their life or in their career.
[00:26:49]I remember once I every important, every good attorney. Worked with is his really most of them the ones that become very successful who have prioritized exercise and [00:27:00] doing very well. It's I remember one time I was staying in a hotel in Palm Springs and it was, there was a bunch of very successful attorneys there.
[00:27:07] And I got up in the morning very early and looked out the window and I was like five 30. And some of them were like running up the side of I don't know if a cliff is the right word, but they were, exercising before everything. And this was a long time ago before the days of like really good gyms and stuff inside of hotels.
[00:27:23] So I thought that was interesting. So you need to, exercise and take care of yourself. It just, it's a way to take your mind off of yourself and and then to take care of your body and make you more effective. You need to meditate. Almost every Spiritual discipline.
[00:27:37] That's thousands of years old whether it's Buddhism or Hinduism or Judaism or Christianity there's different forms of meditation that are part of it. And and you do that and you take time off you need to have days when you don't check your email and so forth. There's there's different holidays for reason.
[00:27:56]It's not just most new dress. Yeah. You need to chance to [00:28:00] reflect watching your weight and avoiding unhealthy foods can make a huge difference. These are all things that help people like my 20 Robinson as an example, just complete focus on what you put in your body and in terms of food, eating nothing, but life food is an example or avoid avoiding food, giving, taking food that, makes you healthy and not the opposite and all this sort of.
[00:28:21]Makes a major difference in how well you do. It's just, these are all each one of these things, eliminating drinking and drugs could make a huge difference for you exercise and can make a huge difference. Meditating taking time off all these things with weight, healthy foods can make a huge difference.
[00:28:36] And then another one that's a major one. And that I that I take very seriously I go to bed at eight o'clock every night is sleep because and you should monitor your sleep. I use a this isn't a commercial by the way, but I use like a watch to other, a sleep app to monitor my sleep.
[00:28:51]And then and then I. Where I had band that block, tracks my hours and so forth, sleeping and and but you have to track your sleep. Cause if you're not getting enough sleep, then you're not going to [00:29:00] be as effective and have enough energy. So you need to watch that.
[00:29:02] And not a lot of people do, but your mind is going to be much more effective. Your energy is going to be much more effective. And then the final one that I like is just socializing with people outside of work having very close family relationships and being around people that support and give you energy and that you can support and give energy and not the opposite.
[00:29:21]And, these are all things that make you healthy and and unfortunately people don't do these things or they do too much of one or the other. And That's not healthy. And this isn't Harrison's guide to, health and fitness and stuff, but these are very important things because almost all very successful people that I know that our attorneys are doing all these things.
[00:29:42] So I don't there's a correlation between all of this and to be very good at what you do. You have to you have to do all these things. Now. Some attorneys are so driven that they don't get enough sleep. That's one of the things I know that they don't some of them are so driven that they don't meditate because they don't have time, but but for the most part, they do all these things [00:30:00] and and then when they don't do one of them, like just not socializing with people outside of work or forming close family relationships that can hurt you a lot.
[00:30:07] And. And so these are just some rules really, to focus on, to make yourself happy and have energy, because if you have that energy, you're going to be successful. And when Warren Buffett's saying he's hiring people that have energy, he's hiring people that probably have energy because they're doing all these things and they're doing a good job.
[00:30:22] And it's, if you want to be a weaker and less promotable and worse, then then you're going to not do those things that I'm recommending or you'll do too little or too much in them. Any one of these things. And I just, and I hate to keep coming back to it can change your life.
[00:30:38] Sleep can change your life socializing with the right people that are going to give you good information. Stuff can change your life. Avoiding drugs or drinking or stopping them could change your life. Exercise can change your life. You just, all those things you really need to prioritize.
[00:30:53]And I hate to say it, but, I know so many people that have died young. I know so many attorneys like I work with attorneys all the time, [00:31:00] but you know that God, some of them die in their forties. One of them had a heart attack and and when he was like 45, he was a partner at a firm in New York.
[00:31:09] And he had it when he went home to visit his fam, it's just sad. It's just, and it's because they do things that detract from their energy. So they may be driven by their spirit, but but they do all these things and you need that energy. Yeah. Cause what you're selling is an attorney So here's some ways that you that your energy is kinda measured.
[00:31:26]The number of hours you bill will show where you're putting your energy the size of the clients you have and the number of clients we'll show your energy and and and you need to maintain that energy because you need to have something to give and you need to. The ability to to help people.
[00:31:40] Yeah. And and I've met attorneys in their eighties that have a lot of energy leading politicians are in their seventies and eighties. And and so are many attorneys. So it's not just your age, it's understanding kind of the physical and emotional aspects of taking care of yourself and being enthusiastic about the things you're doing.
[00:31:55]There's other things too that I didn't really put in here, but socializing and find people to support [00:32:00] you emotionally, most Successful CEOs have coaches most, a lot of very successful people. Go see a therapist and to keep happy. I was amazed that when I was in when I was in.
[00:32:14] It was at high school. I knew a woman who is a therapist, or I knew her son who was a therapist. And and he somehow found out like some of, I don't know who our patients were and there were some kids in the school and those kids actually were all like the happiest and the most popular kids.
[00:32:30] And I thought that was interesting. And it was only two or three kids that he mentioned. But and I don't know that she was talking about patient confidentiality or anything, but I just remember that I thought that was interesting that, maybe there was a correlation between how well they were doing.
[00:32:42]Just maintain your energy. You have to maintain your mind, your. And take care of yourself and then be enthusiastic about what you're doing. And if you love that then you're going to get up each day and be enthusiastic. And if you don't like what you're doing you're just not going to have the energy.
[00:32:56] So you need to do you need to be interested in what you're doing and you need to [00:33:00] want to do what you're doing. Because if you don't you're always going to be looking for something else. It gives you energy. You just, you need to be doing the job. That's going to give you energy.
[00:33:08] And you have to be enthusiastic about what you're doing. And if you show up and you don't have energy, You're going to lose the fight. I remember once I was interviewing with a big firm in New York and this was after I already worked. I was at my second law firm three years or something.
[00:33:26]And I was interviewing with a very famous attorney and and he told me that he didn't think I seemed like I had a lot of energy for it. And he was right. I was out of tapped. I wasn't as interested anymore. Intelligence matters, but intelligence without energy isn't rarely works, so you need to have energy.
[00:33:42] And that means being in the right practice area, it means working in the right location, it means working in a place where you believe you can succeed over the long run. No it's very difficult by the way, for an attorney to keep your energy up. I think it's, for me I really liked practicing law.
[00:33:57] I'd love I love the the challenge of it. I love the there's [00:34:00] just so many things to love about practicing law, especially litigation, but the problem with it is my CA my belief that, but for me was stressful. And one of the reasons I respect attorneys so much is, you work hard very hard, probably much harder than you need to as an attorney you'll be criticized by other attorneys and and peers in your, you're in a law firm, you're in your, you don't know who your friends are.
[00:34:24]You're gonna lose. And you're going to feel it tapped and and it's difficult. And then, not only expected to work, but your spirit trying to bring in business and you're expected to, your future is often uncertain and and the long you do it, it's actually much more stressful as a partner than it does as an associate for most people.
[00:34:41]Can you, it can be very difficult. You need to figure out, if all this is coming at me, how do I how do I take all that and make it into something good. There's different theories about how you control your mind. And the smartest people, of course, do you know what?
[00:34:54] We'll take all this stuff and pay the overwork saying this is incredible. I'm getting this great experience I'm being [00:35:00] criticized. I'm I'm becoming better at what I'm doing. And and w isn't it great that I'm at a place where I'm learning while I'm losing, but that's really good news too, because I know what I can't do next time.
[00:35:10] And so that's what's called cognitive behavioral thinking, where you just we'll talk about things to yourself in a way that makes you stronger. And every job that you have is really about energy. And and when attorneys come to me looking for a job and they don't have energy I know most of the time they're not going to get hired.
[00:35:26]Sometimes I talk to people and there's just so much. Lack of enthusiasm many times that I, when I talked to people that I know they're not going to get hired, but other times, the enthusiasm, when I talk to people, it was just palpable. You can, they're just so excited.
[00:35:38]And and this is a story that I told earlier about recent graduate from UCLA didn't have any energy and so what I'm saying is that you need to have a lot of energy and you need to be excited. You need to talk to yourself about, in a way that gives you energy.
[00:35:52] And and you need to understand how important it's energy is and getting it obviously is there's a lot of different ways. And, [00:36:00] but the highest performing attorneys always have a lot of energy and then they do whatever they can to get a lot of veterans.
[00:36:06]I was at a party a couple of years ago. And I was talking to an attorney that had been tried a case with one of the most well-known attorneys in the country. And they were having breakfast before the trial. And I think they were out of a town somewhere. And the attorney opened a plastic pill organizer and asked the other attorney about his energy level.
[00:36:26] And and then my my friend looked at him quizzically and and he pointed at each of them the attorney and said, you need to take your pick. This one is good. If you hadn't enough sleep, this one is best. You hadn't had enough soup for several days. This one is good if you've had to had sleep, but you need to be sharper than normal.
[00:36:41] And this was good if nothing else is working. And my friend who told this story to because everyone knew who this attorney was for, they were everyone was wrapped thought it was funny, but but then this attorney. Do you think I could be expected to perform at this level for years on end, without some outside stimulus?
[00:36:57] And I don't know what pills were if they were [00:37:00] illegal or not? I, it could be vitamins for all I know, but I thought that was very funny. I, when I heard the story on the heat, that's how important energy was for him. And then, Dave Asprey, who's well known for biohacking and he's created books and seminars, articles, podcasts, and videos that really pretty much promote, maintain peak energy.
[00:37:21] He talked about how, and I'm not really a follower of his, but I did watch a video of his once in talks about how he uses a prescription stimulant to promote his energy. He uses Bulletproof coffee, which he founded multiple vitamins. However he also lies on a prescription stimulant.
[00:37:38] I don't know if that's the right thing to do probably not, cause it'll catch up with you, but at the same time all these successful people are thinking about energy and and when it comes to stimulants, I don't think they're worth the cost. Most people that take stimulants die early.
[00:37:52]I know lots of attorneys that have died in their thirties and forties. I know tons of them that have gotten cancer and and and and you have to be [00:38:00] careful. Anthony Robbins, who I mentioned earlier, doesn't even drink coffee. I unfortunately drink coffee and I'm not saying I'm perfect in terms of health, but he's got a lot figured out he can stand up on stage and jump up and down and talk for 18 hours at a time without no using the bathroom or drinking or anything.
[00:38:15] And it's pretty amazing. That's something that he believes in energy and a lot of very successful people that do believe in energy. So if the job you're doing, it's not empowering you, then, you have to address that. And I think in my opinion when you have a lack of energy and there's there's this Chinese term, all medicines and stuff, there's cheap and Chinese medicine.
[00:38:36] And but the lack of energy is often in my opinion, assigned that something else fairly serious is wrong. And you can be in a bad marriage or in bad relationships and have people close to you that are that are upsetting you. And I don't know or you just something's negative in your life or some people you're around are negative.
[00:38:56]You may have some sort of depression that is just, [00:39:00] biochemical. It could be that needs to be medicated or you may. You may have something wrong. You may have some sort of thyroid issue or other medical issue. There's all sorts of things that can cause energy or you just, honestly you may be doing a job you don't like, or you may have unresolved psychological issues.
[00:39:15]I don't know, but regardless you should fix them and you should get your energy back because energy is a huge thing. And and and and there's so much that causes us to have bad energy. And there's so much that the composites to have good energy and surrounding yourself with good energy is really important.
[00:39:32] And for me, I, I try to. Do my best to surround myself with positive people. I tried to, that gives me energy. Yeah. I try to take time in my day to every day to help others. This is not, this is part of my job, but I enjoy it. But I also do things like I, every day I make sure that I contact at least one person that that I know that it's non-professional and I have a nice interaction with them and tell them things I appreciate about them.
[00:39:58]And and that to me is just [00:40:00] putting positivity. I exercise every day yoga every day. I meditate most days I don't drink alcohol. Most of the time I eat raw food and I'm a vegetarian and I try to do the work that I enjoy most and avoid a lot of the stuff that I do.
[00:40:14] And and then I also take time off from work. So I, I don't generally work more than three or four months without taking at least a week off. But still, I don't have as much as I would like with a lot more energy yeah. Doing this job gives me my point to you. You need to do gives you need to figure out a style to get frustrated because an energy and things that are sapping away from it are going to, and you're not going to have a long die. You should be getting in a practice area, people or an organization.
[00:40:51] It's not a loft. And Become charged and have energy, and it's just really important. And I, I hope that you're done [00:41:00] and all I can say to you is that access and I'll just leave have energy and in that part of the game, and that's part of what they do not about just first, it's more about having energy or happily do, or it's not just having business for Jayco and one, or it's about practicing law, but it's on a way that, gives me energy and not those are when I do things that I like.
[00:41:29]I energy before we have much more for meditate for meditative energy. You didn't eat healthy, but I do. You're not helping me out. So things are extremely important. Cry. You know what I remember, Palm beach years ago, I was a Dean at a Tony Robbins event. And and I was gone before. And so I got to use this dressing room and I [00:42:00] couldn't like coconut all give you entered get up. I think that just shaped me like a turbo Sonic. He had, Yeah, all this incredible food and curator, there were fruits that had been, opened up and sliced things and doing whatever sure that, energy shake staying clean every morning. These are just very good.
[00:42:27] Cause if you can do these certificates much, much happier person, you're going to have more to go. So
[00:42:35]this final one for last, I know I talked about that. But the things that practice is a lot of attorneys don't have integrity, you know what,
[00:42:46]Hey. Out of, people don't really live well with tech shut illegal, always encourage the most integrity. And a lot of attorneys will get over the last percent [00:43:00] and integrity is I'm personally, I've had experience dealing with a lot on having integrity and fortunately I spoke not too long ago when who'd been so super enhancer for about third and something that I thought he said, bookkeeper and anything.
[00:43:20]And they're not monitored and checks and watch almost all those bookkeepers. We'll end up even if they are mostly where he's ever seen most all of them will end up and just the temptation high. For bookkeeper a company, so a hundred bucks in the account, I need $500 to pay an expense or something.
[00:43:41]CA paying the come up well, since no one noticed a 500 pay it back notice. And then I think the personal, they were like can come or the rash back that they should. [00:44:00] Us to find. And then times what'll happen. We'll just get deep in the house there. I start to think different.
[00:44:12]And they just will, many times raises they may never get caught, the fraternity, the person was almost ever switch the sad Humana I don't know if I can pick the word of
[00:44:27]that. The first book nice one didn't S the second moment was a very personal. And steel. The third they did put yourself a fourth person, fifth one while they were working, but then had all my bank accounts they start off align off American express my account, it's just happened.
[00:44:54]I don't. But but so about you question I, that you should think about, and this is a form of stealing, [00:45:00] this is your billing accurate into the legal environment. And this is an integrity issue because, if you're doing something that's not, it doesn't have integrity then you'll start many people when they do things that don't.
[00:45:11]It's in other ways. So they, they'll make it. So though it's just a subconscious thing, but I have to make sure it's accurate have attorneys and a lot of them, we'll just find endless reasons to keep billing things. They won't, if I have a problem and they can solve it for, five hours they'll keep the ball rolling on me too.
[00:45:34]And and and the main thing and that, but the other thing I stopped, the, many attorneys not saying anybody in the law firms, I worked in, I don't really have any say about anybody, but I do know that of attorneys that have certainly padded their hours and they will they'll say that they work for some, they get and and that's very common.
[00:45:54]Is that the right thing to do? Not if that's the agreement that you've made with the client, is there pay them by the bill? [00:46:00] So when I was in law firm, I always bill a lot of hours. And once I was told to, build something new and I thought about it in the shower, or like I said about this attorney, it was like, oh, were you in the shower?
[00:46:10]Yeah. And he's on your time, if you S minutes, keep your pens. But the whole time I was in law firms, I never had a single one of my Bell's question on top, but attorneys are always fired many times fired, not giving bonuses for not building enough hours. And. Had an attorney be asked if they, if they asked if they really build as many as they recorded, they did.
[00:46:30]I don't know that the legal profession is doing this or just billable professions in general, our honesty but I do know that many times attorneys will work on matters as long as they can and write down as many hours as they can to generate a lot of bill hours.
[00:46:44] I, I got a once for, I don't know, 30 to $40 for someone reviewing a trademark. And when I had it done by another firm, hadn't even come. Sure. I don't know. But, and I knew many reconstruct the end of the month by listening to boys, too, [00:47:00] with emails to remember what they'd done.
[00:47:01]But it's a lot of how the two work. Whatever you can do to, to really, to try to be honest with your hours, I believe just me talking about the negativities of this and the hours. There's a lot of other forms of dishonesty and I taught them, but, and the attorney are honest and the majority probably are, if you're a client, you're going to the client's coming to you because they trust you.
[00:47:26] And con attorneys don't want to have dissonance it's attorneys. They don't want, they're not there. Dishonesty it's like a cancer because once it starts infects people, you will you may pad your hours or you may overwork And then you may be dishonest in another manner or another, and it just, it continues.
[00:47:44] And and pretty soon and and you'll be in trouble and on a case with a junior partner and I was at the beginning stages of the case. And I realized that we could probably get the case very quickly to Smith. I've been playing the motion. Okay. Cause [00:48:00] there were a couple motions.
[00:48:01] I, one of them, I thought it was a statue of limitation and I wrote and and sad. He didn't mean you need to come to the court. He'd argued him off, but time I lived very close to the Los Angeles courthouse downtown. So I decided to watch over to watch the hearing. And and when I walked over.
[00:48:16]Or I realized he'd removed the statute of limitations argument and of course, without that there he lost the motion. And and what was funny too, is when he saw me in the audience, I'll never forget. I still can see the look on his face because he, it was kinda like, no one I'm doing, this is what I'm doing, and but right away I realized he, he tended to lose the motion. Paper is still the moment. No I didn't trust us attorney going forward and and and in that certainly attorneys, other attorneys at other firms had other hours. A lot of them done it against me. I certainly didn't trust either.
[00:48:49] And and there's just lots of people. Austin the laws about for a lot of attorneys, it's about survival and making money and yeah, but they, but some of them play [00:49:00] games. And I think that dishonesty is really a sign of fear because if you're dishonest and you're afraid that you can, can't get a hat by playing of rules here, that you're not good enough.
[00:49:11]You may fear that you need to take advantage of every opportunity. You're an advantage, and if you're dishonest you're going to get caught eventually. When they're not there go attorneys exposed no one's gonna wanna, no one generally wants anything to do with them anymore.
[00:49:25]Most of this a small working for large clients they, they self-sabotage. Yeah. And and they're they're not as happy as they could be. Isn't there a lot of facing practice here. It's like family law and so forth often can have a bad reputation.
[00:49:40]Compared to some other practice areas, because a lot of times people do feel taken advantage of I think that if you're dishonest, you're gonna eat yourself up by being dishonest. I if I was writing down false hours every day I wouldn't feel good about myself.
[00:49:52]Everyone that does something wrong, always justifies it in some regard they'll say, oh, there's a big company that can afford it. Or, I spent this [00:50:00] time doing this and maybe I should have been paid more. I dunno. But or the client made a lot of money or saved a lot of money using the us.
[00:50:06] But I think when you're honest and people see that they're more likely to do business with you in the future. I think you're going to be more respected by your colleagues, clients. I think that you're not going to have guilt. That's going to eat you up inside and which it will, and I'm not sure it a sociopath.
[00:50:20]And you're not going to have health issues or substance abuse problems. And so I believe that honestly honesty is the best policy. And the reason I, I think Warren buffet talks about this is you really want someone's dishonest. They're almost always dishonest again. So all the people that have been.
[00:50:37] Worked with, or instead of told me, yeah, oh, I did this really dishonest thing that I've learned and so forth, and I've done this and I'm better now. And, they almost always go back at some point to that dishonesty. And and so I think that's very harmful. I think you certainly can rehabilitate yourself after being a dishonest, but and you should, but but you just, if you get the [00:51:00] reputation of not being honest and not doing what you say you're going to do and being someone that can't be trusted, then then people just don't want.
[00:51:09]Work with you. Clients don't want to work with you and people avoid you in the future, and you leave this trail of negativity behind you. And it's a very subtle thing. And, frankly most attorneys don't have that, but a lot of them do. And and then that kind of those feelings that are associated with that will eat you up inside.
[00:51:25] So they'll cause psychological problems, cause relationship problems you'll deal with them in destructive ways, which could be substance abuse or I dunno. Ms curious, or I dunno, it just all sorts of bad behavior. So you just you need to really concentrate on that. And there's a real reason that you know, that this is such an important concept to society and you have jails and prisons and rules and professional responsibility, religions and all these things.
[00:51:54]It's a very important thing. And and the idea is if you can't trust someone, then what do you do? [00:52:00] Energy intelligence and integrity are the three qualities that I would want. I'm an attorney too. And an absence really of any of these is going to be fatal and and you need to work towards being all three.
[00:52:13] And and if you don't have these qualities you're not going to be referrable and if you do, you're going to be hireable. And referrable, think about what you would want. If I was looking for an attorney, I would want someone that was very smart, very enthusiastic, and that I could trust.
[00:52:26]And that, that's pretty simple. I like these three things and they're certainly not for me but I reflecting on them, I think. So that's all I have. I am going to take a quick break for just a few minutes or two minutes, and then when I come back I will answer as many questions as you guys have.
[00:52:41]You can answer questions about, or ask questions about any, anything that you have weighted your career. Now, all the questions are anonymous and I always try to give as many as much information as I can to be helpful to you based on my experience, but I hope today's, webinar's been helpful so far.
[00:52:57] Thanks.
[00:52:58]Okay.
[00:52:59][00:53:00] Yeah.
[00:53:00]Okay, let's go to these questions. Give me one second. The share for a second,
[00:53:06]did this on a blank document. Just you guys can see here.
[00:53:10]Okay, so let's get started.
[00:53:13]What question should an attorney ask in a law firm interview or two questions? The first question, how do we make this a little bigger for you guys? It was which questions? What questions should an attorney asking a law firm interview? Let's see here. Is that 200 or right. Okay.
[00:53:30]Okay there's there are a bunch of articles on BCG that kind of talk about that what kind of questions would be good to ask. And and so I would really I'm happy to, to comment on that if you'd like, but in general you want to ask questions that the talk a little bit, that, that are about we'll talk about your kind of experience.
[00:53:49] So let me just see here, pull up, up,
[00:53:50]look up.
[00:53:56] Let's see here's the questions. So here are some [00:54:00] articles here. Here's one that I did. I don't know. This is mine. Stay here. But these are some kind of common ones. And then and then top 23 interview tips is always helpful for the top 10 interview questions. But there's a bunch of articles on BCG about this.
[00:54:13] So I would really recommend looking at these twenty-five oh, here's one, the 45 worst questions. This is actually a funny one, I think, but actually maybe not. Let me just say this is. But th this is really how I, this is my the ones that I look at working from home hours so just be careful about these different questions.
[00:54:36]You're if you ask them an unwillingness to do certain types of work those are, I would be more careful about what questions you many times you do ask than the ones you don't. So let me just see here. There's some more definitive guide to legal interview questions. Oh, here's another one.
[00:54:51]Maybe it's just oh, wow. I'm gonna just find another logical. And this is actually by one of our recruiters, so that's good. So these are just some [00:55:00] examples of questions, but if you search for that, I, there are a lot of there are a lot of are examples of questions and the ones you should be asking.
[00:55:08] I think, it's a great question. This question is, do patent attorneys make a lot of money? So a patent attorney is interesting. So just let me just read that correctly. Kind of attorneys can make a lot of money. The it depends on the firm you're working at and what kind of work you're doing for those of you that aren't aware of patent attorneys have to, most of them passed the patent bar.
[00:55:29] You have to pass the patent part of the practice before the patent trademark office. And what that means essentially is there's a certain, there's a branch of the. There's a different type of court that you, where you write patents to and where that approves patents and where you argue whether or not a patent is valid.
[00:55:47] And so you have to be part of that. So Penn attorneys can make a lot of money but one of the problems is the work is very scientific in nature. It doesn't necessarily make use of a writing skills and so forth. So a lot of what's happening is [00:56:00] that a lot of larger law, the costs are being pushed down for the work by competition from overseas.
[00:56:05] So a lot of the work patents are now written a lot of them in China and India and things like that. So that's happening a lot. And then also the there's because it requires. The same sort of scale you don't need necessaril
