[00:00:00] hello. so today I'm going to be talking about, setting, bigger goals for yourself and custody setting goals. And. This is something that I think, I'm going to tell a lot of personal stories today some of them may be even too personal, but I'm going to tell them anyway.
[00:00:14] and we're talking about, the idea behind what this presentation is about is no matter who you are, no matter where you went to law school or what stage you are in your career. You're going to constantly come up against, people that are trying to push you down, things that bad that happened to you that are going to hurt you.
[00:00:32] and you're going to feel, to some extent, like you're not able to go forward and you may settle. this is one of the biggest things that happens to people and something that I've noticed. And, having worked with thousands of attorneys, I think this is one of the most important. presentations, you could hear, to the extent it can give you, hope and you can the things that can help you, achieve a lot more.
[00:00:54] So when I was in law school, I had a, I met a girlfriend, first or [00:01:00] second semester. and she wanted to come home she wanted to come to Michigan where I was from. it was, my mom was single My sister and she wanted to, stay with us for a few weeks and also work in the asphalt business, which is just crazy.
[00:01:12]but the it's just the, the visit went fairly well. I, in the beginning but it ended up not working out well at all. And there was tension between my mother and my girlfriend, which I didn't really understand. even before the visit I wanted, my mom lived in a, not a very, nice neighborhood.
[00:01:29] It was a nice neighborhood, but I made a small house and, she didn't keep it up very well. So I spent, lots of time doing yard work and cleaning the carpet I put in shower curtains and got organized and, really wanted to make, a good impression because it was someone I was very serious about at the time.
[00:01:44] And someone, actually ended up marrying, later. but. and that was what happened. But, about a week in the visit, we went to meet my father's mother for lunch on a Sunday afternoon, and everything seemed normal. by the time, we returned in the afternoon.
[00:01:58]it was very [00:02:00] strange. my mother had locked herself into her, bedroom and a friend of hers who sponsored that I didn't know very well, from alcoholics anonymous came down and was waiting for us in the living room, wearing a tennis skirt, I guess she had been, called over from wherever she was playing tennis.
[00:02:16] And told us that we had to leave it just came completely out of nowhere. it was very upsetting for me personally, because obviously my girlfriend, who was upset and my mom was upset I had no idea what was going on everyone, started, crying and fighting, we needed a Pat very rapidly, and.
[00:02:35]it just wasn't a pleasant experience at all. It was just, one of the, when you go for something like that, it can be very devastating. and then as we were finally getting out of there, the police had shown up the, because for our sponsor and it was just very dramatic and called the police for some reason.
[00:02:50] My mother came out of a room there was a huge shouting match, between, she and my girlfriend. they were screaming out of that. Never knew, Mary and all this sort of thing. police cars in front of [00:03:00] the house. It was just very, very dramatic.
[00:03:02] But, as my girlfriend and I were getting to the car, my mother was standing at the sports screaming. the last thing I heard is, scream was, you're going to take away Al's passion, your formula, because you're going to take a while. I was passionate. And I, when she said that it was something, that really stuck with me because I, that I guess was the source of, a lot of, the tension as she saw her as someone that.
[00:03:24]would try to form me or I don't want to someone I was not, and maybe crush my goals, but, it was the last time I spoke to my mom and I didn't even see her for a few years after that. Cause I was very upset and but what she meant, I think, in whatever state this was, it meant that, that this person I was with Kirby.
[00:03:42] Potentially take away my enthusiasm for life, my enthusiasm for work, and saw that is a very, positive thing that I have this enthusiasm, but potentially taking it away is, something, that was very negative. one thing for you to think about as I continue, with this [00:04:00] talk today, but.
[00:04:00]you need to ask yourself, who around you is potentially taking away your enthusiasm. Who's, making it more difficult for you to be, the person that you're capable of being, what situations are you in that are drained? Your who's taken away your goals, what's taken away your goals.
[00:04:17] And then at the same time, what's empowering you because, the drive to succeed and the drive to be good at. is really important. And if anything came out of me not talking to my mom for a few years and that episode, it was, just remembering, what she said, it came from subconscious.
[00:04:33] I don't know, but, it was very meaningful for me at the time. my girlfriend, obviously we were very upset. we, Got in her car, which, alpha Romeo spider, which is weird with our dog. she was crying so much that, when we stopped at a place to try to rent a place, but they wouldn't let us rent it because they thought they could tell it something was very wrong.
[00:04:54]but, what did she mean by that? When she said to me, this passion, does it mean, that [00:05:00] there's people and circumstances out there that, take away the R drive? does it mean that, without this drive we have nothing. And what does it mean when you don't have the sort of drive?
[00:05:11]the drive to succeed. some people have it in sports and people have it in. the personal lives. Some people have it and all sorts of aspects of it, but it's really, that passion and that drive is something that, employers look for when you're getting jobs.
[00:05:24] It's something. that is important. And there's people that will try to reign you in and not have you have that drive. And sometimes, more times than other people. you can actually psych yourself up it turns out, that my girlfriend, did become my wife, is no longer my wife.
[00:05:39]but ended up taking away a lot of my passion and drive and not in a way, you might expect, and I'll talk about that. in a minute, the number of people who want you to fail, who are lined up against you, it's very, large, there's people out there who don't want you to succeed.
[00:05:53]if you're friends with certain types of people, they may not want you to get better than them. if you're a part of, certain firms, where you're capable of [00:06:00] doing more, those people may not want you to do well. the most important thing you can do really is to have, that fight and passion within you.
[00:06:07]you really need it. then you can't let anything, push that away and you need resilience and you need to continually, do well. when I was in my, my, Thirties, I, moved to Malibu and that honestly was probably one of the bigger mistakes that I've ever made at the time.
[00:06:24]I don't know. I don't think it was, but, I was, I married my girlfriend a few years after that incident we moved to, passing the, which is a part of Los Angeles. and soon she started working in Malibu, For a lot of very wealthy people and she idolized the lifestyle there made friends, in Malibu, friends with people that were flying around in private planes and all this stuff started idolizing the people there and.
[00:06:47]felt that, being married to an attorney, wasn't, an adequate lifestyle for her found someone else very quickly, by the way, within, probably less than a year of us getting married. So it wasn't a very long-term marriage, but, after that [00:07:00] happened, I wasn't, I guess I was upset, but maybe not that upset.
[00:07:02] cause I was young and I set a goal to prove something to myself and. that I, achieve all these things that, she had put down on me for not being able to achieve. it was, very stupid because, I had built up a fairly large company the part of Los Angeles, and was fighting and building it up and doing very well.
[00:07:20]but the goal of moving in a fantasy, which I think a lot of people have is that you'll go someplace where you can relax and take it easy and not have the stress around you and your life. and that sort of thing. and somewhat even give up the fight. different people have different fantasies.
[00:07:35]it used to be maybe retirement for some people maybe, not working anymore and starting a family, other people that may be moving to the country. but that was the kind of, fantasy, I think that I had, and also that I would prove something to her because, I had felt inadequate, at the time, because of all that.
[00:07:52]so the problem, wasn't yeah, that I moved to Baton Rouge and the problem was is that I had made this decision, to [00:08:00] move to a smaller town and leave everything behind and the. the man that my wife had left me for was a lift down at large flip top compound that now is probably worth, $50 million plus.
[00:08:13]I decided that I needed to have, something like that, and that was important. those were it was a bad value system that I had. but, at that point in time, I had quite a few people working for me, I would say probably over 800 and then the company was much bigger than it was now.
[00:08:27]so I ended up doing the same thing I built the life, when I was in Los Angeles where, I was constantly challenged where I was pushing, where, I had a lot of people or meetings like the business was expanding, and I was doing a lot of things, but at some point, because I had this in the back of my mind, I decided that, I can, work, not being around a ton of people, in a smaller office, be alone with my thoughts, not have this pressure and to some extent, that I can fight and retreat and I wanted to relax and be happy give up the fight.
[00:09:00] [00:08:59] And if you think about it and you look at the most successful people, business people, politicians, others. they don't do that. and you know what I did, I still continued to work, but in a different way, but giving up the fight in terms of being around people and so forth all the time, these challenges, is a form of, giving up the fight.
[00:09:17] so the problem was, is even though I moved to Maui and I still had a lot of fights in, so I started, exercising, every single day, to, to exhaustion, so I would, not have all this energy to work. I started meditating. I would take supplements and then, prescription pills, which is ambient, at night I'd fall asleep.
[00:09:35] Cause I was so enthusiastic about work and I got a prescription for Al Ambien. I tried to calm myself down and I didn't want to have, all this. I was just too motivated and I figured that, why not take it easy? instead of avoiding, Navarro a lot of these challenges At the time I did this, I was, the company was in three buildings.
[00:09:54]and there was a, there's a lot of stress when you put yourself out there and you work hard. if you work hard as an attorney, [00:10:00] the bigger the, from your end and the more challenging the cases, the more stress was going to be the more challenging the clients, the more stress it's going to be, the larger city around the larger firm, the more stress was going to be.
[00:10:11] And so anytime you are doing something meaningful, and where they're spending potential to make income, and there's a potential to. make an impact on the world. if you're going to be exposing yourself to a lot of challenges, and as this company grew to around a hundred people, you can imagine the amount of issues that were going on there were, it's difficult to pay that many people all the time.
[00:10:32]you have all these people there's, people get injured and warehouses and stuff. There's, lots of drama between employees and. People leaving and, having issues and blogging about battled terraces and good experiences. It's just, it's just not fun. It can be, fun.
[00:10:48] It can be difficult. It can be, anytime you expose yourself to challenges, you're going to find, I'd have competitors trying to undermine me. I'd get letters from competitors all the time, threatening me for reasons that made no sense to [00:11:00] me. and then you have to keep people motivated and happy and.
[00:11:03]it can be, very stressful to expose yourself to that, but that's how the world is. the world is set up, the farther you go and the more successful you become, the harder it's going to be to do things and the harder it's going to be to, achieve and approve and adapt. and that's just how it works.
[00:11:20]people that succeed and do great things, go through a lot of stress and they don't necessarily withdraw. Like I did. No, but I, for me personally, I was, had an attitude, like many, attorneys may that I needed to do everything myself. I needed to be in charge of everything. I didn't want partners, I didn't have a lot of peers to help me.
[00:11:40]so my, protect, good coping mechanism, this was the background, by the way, participating in things like this for you. Is it coping mechanism. there's lots, learning and knowledge as a coping mechanism, but, the more that you surround yourself with people, that can help you and so forth, you could get peers and peer groups and so forth, the better you can do.
[00:11:58] So I, [00:12:00] stopped biting I decided to shrink the company and my life to some extent, and escape is problems, that I created for myself. And if you look at very successful people, at some point a lot of them do that. I think, Peter Theo lives in Hawaii now and, it's just, people will, escape things and may not do it.
[00:12:16] But is that in your best interest? certainly if you look at top politicians, some of them. in the current presidential race. one of the, both of the men are in their late seventies. people that string from responsibility, if you don't shirk from responsibility and fighting, you keep succeeding even into your seventies and eighties, it just happened.
[00:12:34] Okay. And I, and I'm going to relate this to you now, because I think that, most people on this call that are attorneys, or. coming out of law school, they have long-term goals. And a lot of times these long-term goals will involve things like going in house, making partner in a law firm, being a judge work in the us attorney's office.
[00:12:57]there are others or even leaving the practice of law [00:13:00] and starting a business. And these are goals and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Navy is called, but the problem with these kinds of goals is that the goal often stops there. people will think that if they reach a particular goal, they've arrived and they can relapse.
[00:13:15] And that they've, they've, they're successful. but the problem is, when you feel like you can relax, you've made it because of your past apparent accomplishments, the world will eat you alive. that happens all the time. They see people coming out of great law schools and believing.
[00:13:30]because they graduated from some top law school that, they're entitled to great jobs or they're entitled to special treatment and the world ate some alive. and the idea that you can ever relapse, is just not there. the gifts you have, which is what my mother said is that, it's, your passion and drive and, you have to keep that alive and you have to, the second you stop your life and your career, often stop.
[00:13:52] And one of the people I remember I worked with, when I was a young associate, had a goal to be a partner, at a major law firm. he did become a [00:14:00] partner in a major law firm. He was very good at his job. He worked very hard, for several years and he made partner at, one of the top, law firms in the country.
[00:14:08] but as soon as he made, partner at a law firm, he had a deadline, a couple of years to start being productive and start generating business. and at the point he made partner, which is crazy. he started doing things like putting this effort. He got a budget of, I don't know, 20 or $30,000 to decorate his office.
[00:14:27] And we put a lot of time in picking out the floors and a new desk and some other things, And then instead of, keeping his eye on the ball, he ended up, losing his job. So he set a goal, but he never really set a new goal, which was even harder than the goal of making partner.
[00:14:43] The hardest thing is to get the business. it's, even though, maybe out of this norm, he went to for every hundred associates or maybe to ever make partner, he didn't step up and continue to fight. and so then a few years in the firm asked him to leave. he had no idea what to do.
[00:14:59]he set a [00:15:00] goal to go on house, but he couldn't get any in house jobs. today, he's a solo practitioner. he, was upset and started, just not taking care of himself his wife divorced him and he's unhappy. And so that's what happens when you take your eye off the ball.
[00:15:15] And unfortunately for me, when I took the act, the ball, I was still working, 50 hours a week. I just wasn't, developing myself around, huge groups of people leading and that way. that the point is that, you can become a partner, but then, you're, that's just, then Nicole's could heart and you can never really relaxed.
[00:15:34] And the more successful you become and the better you become at your job. The more difficult everything becomes, you really, you can never push for and never relax. I see so many people, even in my own company that, believe that, they're entitled to relax and take their, their foot off the gas at some point.
[00:15:53] And the point is that the better you get at things, the higher and higher the bargains and the more you're going to be challenged. [00:16:00] I've seen people at our company start out, almost not little over minimum wage and then become, people that make over six figures a year because they just keep, challenging themselves.
[00:16:09] And that's what you need to do. a lot of people, I've seen, think about other people, that have gone to, a top five pounds, Stanford or Yale or something. they go to a really good school and then they assume that they've made it and that the world is going to open up to them based on a past accomplishment.
[00:16:25] All those accomplishments do whether or not you go to a good law school, whether or not you go to a good law firm and get a job at a good law firm. all those accomplishments do is they make it possible for you to potentially go farther than you might. without those, accomplishments, they don't make it any easier.
[00:16:43] They actually will challenge you more. And that's something that a lot of people don't understand. I can't think of how many people, that I meet within the first five minutes will tell me they went to some great school or they worked at some great firm, 20 years ago. what that [00:17:00] means.
[00:17:00]Hold on one second. Sorry about that, my camera right now, but what the good schools and so forth me to say it really don't mean anything other than, you were able to, go to a good school potentially, put yourself in a role. where, you were challenging yourself. okay.
[00:17:18] It went on for a second. Okay. alright, so let me just move on here. when I was in law school, I thought that yeah, done, very well by, getting into a pretty good law school. I thought that was something, that was, really going to, set me up to do well.
[00:17:34] like many people that go to law school, little did I know. but that was something that was, going to, set me up for, even more challenges, to continue to improve myself. then I had, had before. I took classes in law school against people, more competitive than ever countered and I, a lot of these people, did very well.
[00:17:51]the idea is it's just that every step of your career is going to have a lot of challenges and. These challenges are going to force you to get better and better. [00:18:00] And it's never really going to stop. the, each new goal you reach is, as an invitation to. to compete at a much higher level, the higher level, you're competing admin or the more, the more people you're competing with, but in the bigger the challenges are.
[00:18:14]it's important to really, understand that you can never stop fighting and every time you achieve one thing, you're going to be. looking at, having to do even more, to keep rising. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't understand is that, the idea of taking your, your foot off the gas at any point in time in your career, it's just a very, risky proposition.
[00:18:36] it's not something, that you can ever do. And if you do it. it's going to hurt you and you're going to be held back. And some people, take their foot off the gas. And second, they go to college. Some people, take it off in high school. Other people take it off, at different points, your strength as a person and in your personal and your professional life comes from, continually, giving it all.
[00:18:59] And it's like that with [00:19:00] your relationships, the harder you work on your relationships and the better person you become. the better off you'll do, in your relationship, it's like that with your, your spirituality or, your calmness as a person and your ability to process information and problems.
[00:19:15] And it's like that with your job, the better you do it and everything that you persist and continue to fight against and challenge yourself with you're going to get better. And if you stop trying, stop fighting and stop developing. Then everything stops. you start, shrinking back from what you used to be.
[00:19:31] I'll tell you one quick story. that, is interesting to me is that in our, this, our placement company here at BCG, every, the company is continually changing and getting better. we're always investigating more jobs. We're always. learning to do that. We're learning, different things about the market people.
[00:19:47]we're learning different ways to form relationships with law firms and what happens in most people that come here is they typically will come in and a lot of them will do very well in the beginning extremely well. but then [00:20:00] the company, continually throws new challenges and there's new things that continually happen to make the company better and more and more effective at what it's doing.
[00:20:08] And as that happens, those people will tend not to set new goals and they'll stick with what they were doing in the past because they're comfortable and they won't develop. and then a lot of times they won't succeed. because everything changes. The whole market changes, everything changes and they don't develop the skills and it's like that with anything like you need to keep fighting and you need to keep developing, a better skill.
[00:20:32]I used to wait too much, not maybe too much, but I would say probably, I don't know, 15 pounds or 20 pounds more than maybe 25 and I weigh now. and so I wanted to lose weight. I thought, as I got older, as importantly, I didn't want to have heart problems and things and.
[00:20:47]so I started running every day. I just started running like five, six miles a day and then actually been doing any good. so I just kept thinking, what is it, what is gonna work? And so all I did was I started lifting weights like three times a week. and all of a sudden, I think that's, [00:21:00] I guess that's one of the most important things.
[00:21:02]they worked and I did a few other things. but the idea is that, if you, if you keep fighting something and you keep trying to improve and you keep. doing well at these things and you'll, you will continually improve. and so you need to, every problem that you have, if you're attacking it, you want to, to better and to fight and it's important.
[00:21:21] And the biggest mistake that you can make as an attorney is setting a goal and believing you have it. Once you reached that goal, you never arrive. think about, just think about what in the market. In terms of, businesses and how businesses are always changing to get better and better, would you buy the products that Apple was selling?
[00:21:39]15 years ago, would you buy a car that was for sale 15 or 20 years ago? Would you believe, would would you hire you're like a 10th year attorney, the attorney you were 10 years ago, so everything, you can never get anything and you never really know get anywhere.
[00:21:53]unless you're, really given it your all and you need to keep going, no matter what happens, you can never really get [00:22:00] content. the fact that people think that. is insane. One challenge or one thing that attorneys have as a goal. And I'm sure there's lots of people on this call is they think that, if they work hard in a law firm, they can get a good job in house.
[00:22:12]and, but what happens to most attorneys that go on house and that's the thing that's going to happen to you, but it happens to a lot of people is, in house with even more challenge, just like the partner. that became a partner and then had to get business. And didn't, once you get in house, you're playing all sorts of political games that, inside of a company that you may not even be, ready for.
[00:22:31]you may be asked to, help the firm, do things that are boring on the illegal. I'm going to lots of people that have been fired from in-house jobs or left them when. they were asked to, overstate earnings or certified things that weren't true, or to help the company break rules.
[00:22:47]there's new CEO's owners, investors and others that come into the business. when a new CEO comes in, they typically bring their own legal team and you need to confront that. So there's all sorts of challenges that presented themselves and people can succeed and do very [00:23:00] well on the cost jobs.
[00:23:00] And there's nothing wrong with their new house job. But the problem is that. it's not something in a lot of cases where you can settle down, you can never sell out. So you may actually have to start fighting and fight in a different way than you've ever fought before. and understand rules along that.
[00:23:17]so one of the things that I've always fantasized about, and you may be, the same way too. I don't know. but I've always wanted to, feel that I could put trust. in my life, in the hands of others who would take care of me, this may be from growing up in a weird household.
[00:23:31] I don't know. but I'd want to hire, people that I could trust with my affairs, who would take care of me, So that would be people like managers, accountants, lawyers, And other people that I would hire that would, protect me and come my best interest at heart, that would be, assistance, family members and friends.
[00:23:49]that will look out for me, by everybody. So I think everybody, wants to feel, that, people around them will take care of them and they can relax and be comfortable. And I think that's a [00:24:00] fantasy. that a lot of people have, and I think if something. that you may have, it's something that when you're interviewing, with employers that employers have, they want to feel like you're going to take care of them.
[00:24:11]basically, like curling up in a ball, like a cat or something to me in contempt. that's a fantasy that a lot of people have. but the point is, and it's bad. News is, you really never can rely, you maybe rely up with a rely on your spouse.
[00:24:24] But, you, it's very difficult to, relax and take it easy. if you think about politicians, they hire all these people and then those people go out and write negative books about them or celebrities that hire, people that work for them and they do the same or be traded them.
[00:24:38]everyone, is constantly being pushed down by the world. and that's the way it works. the biggest force out there is gravity. Over time, gravity will shrink you, there's, disease, that can hurt you. There's taxes, there's competitors, there's, thieves there's, all sorts of things that can happen on a day-to-day basis that you can't necessarily control and you can never [00:25:00] relapse.
[00:25:00] And so you can never have this fantasy of being able to relax, take it easy, and not have new goals and keep fighting all the time. It's just not the reality of the world. one thing I'll say is that, almost every manager, I've ever hired, not all of them. but the majority of them, betray me in some way or another.
[00:25:19] and it's not because they're bad people or it's just the way, some of them were, but it's just the way it works. people will form alliances. People will have, their own stuff and interests at the forefront. They'll have. certain demands and you just can't trust people forever.
[00:25:33] And it's a two-way street, very few, companies, political organizations or anything, are, consistently will have, people will be happy enough to train each other, finances, almost every financial person I've ever hired has stolen from me. one currently is on the run.
[00:25:49]the police are looking for her. They've been looking for her for a year. that's a funny story, but she was, my accountant in the office. another one went to prison for stealing my credit cards and car. [00:26:00] the person gave her himself a big raise without telling me another, paid his friend and the company a lot more money than you should, or they should have received, I think, over $30,000.
[00:26:09]it's just. lots of trouble, it's just things that have happened to me and it's not a really a big deal. I had the system wants to create a meth lab in my house when I was out of the country. and stole tens of thousand dollars or, from my credit card is just, it's just, you can't necessarily trust anyone.
[00:26:26] There's all these forces that are always working. against you and it's I'm no different than anyone. the farther you go, the more of the stuff is going to happen. And the harder you push, the more you're going to have to overcome thing, people will steal from you, all sorts of things happen and it's not, it's just the way the world works and it's not, certainly things that you can control by setting limits with people.
[00:26:49]and I'm certainly, not wiling himself pity about all this. I don't feel sorry for myself. what I'm realizing and what you should realize is that, regardless of your fantasies, [00:27:00] no one is ever going to take care of, you have to take care of yourself.
[00:27:05] the world and everything is coming at you all the time and gravity shrinking you here. If you own a house, you're going to be taxed every year. And if you don't pay, your taxes are gonna lose your house and you just, you can never stop fighting and you always need to set bigger and bigger goals.
[00:27:19] And that's just how it works. everybody in the world has their agenda and, you need to stick up for yourself and every successful person out there, what they do, with negative things that happen to them is they don't give up. they use something that's bad that happens to them.
[00:27:35]the risks I was once talking to a, a very famous, spin master, while he's a public relations person, but he's more of a spin doctor and people tend to react in two ways, to challenges and when bad things happen to them, some people get mad and some people get sad.
[00:27:51] And the best thing you can do really is to get mad. cause if you're mad, you use that as fuel and it makes you work harder and approve something. [00:28:00] Just like I needed to prove something to my. X, Y by buying a ridiculous compound in Valdez, on a cliff, you need to, really use bad things to happen to you as rocket fuel.
[00:28:09] every time you reach a goal, you have to keep fighting. You just, you can't ever stop fighting. You need to keep fighting. And the game is going to continue to get harder and harder. the farther you go. And so many attorneys make the mistake of. they stopped fighting. They stop improving and they think they can relax.
[00:28:28] I look at resumes all day long it makes me mad. And that's why I'm talking about this. And for you, it doesn't matter where you are right now. It doesn't matter how you're doing it. Doesn't matter. What's happened to you and you need to take everything that's ever happened to you and use it to get better and better, and to make you angry and not get sad, you need to keep going.
[00:28:48]and then, this session really isn't about goal setting. but it is to the extent, it's not like a program for both setting, but almost all successful people, have goals and they write them down and then they [00:29:00] continually will look at those goals at each new stage in your life and should come up with goals.
[00:29:04] So if you reach one thing, then you need to do another. So I know someone went in house and their goal was to be. CEO of the company. It was a big company. so instead of worrying about, just being in house and sitting down and doing a job, they decided they were going to learn how to network and learn about the business and so forth become successful.
[00:29:22] And yeah, you're never sad you're going to a good school. And one of the worst thing that I have some happened to people is sometimes it's going to a school like Yale law school, because. People come out of there with a sense of entitlement. A lot of times, not all of them, certainly not all of them by any stretch of the imagination.
[00:29:40]but, it can come out of a sense of entitlement and beliefs that the world should open up without them doing the work. and they may have gotten in there, but then they come out and they don't do as well as they could now. That's, certainly not by any stretch of imagination, everybody, or even the majority of people, but a lot of people.
[00:29:56] So it's the same thing. We're getting the job, you can't [00:30:00] ever feel like you're when you become a partner in a law firm, by the way, as I'm sure partners on this call and test here. it's even harder in a lot of respects than being an associate because you can no longer just do the work.
[00:30:12]you have to bring in work, you have to satisfy clients. You have to do deal with all sorts of very difficult politics in the firm. And it becomes much more difficult, to do things. So when I, purchases, Quip, top compliment, and now, I was excited for myself and this is a long time ago, 12, 13 years ago, but.
[00:30:30]I figured I'd paid off and then spend my days relaxing, reflecting, doing sort of remote work. I had an office there where people would come in, but I can only do five or six people. happy and up until that point, when I did that, my income had gone up every year.
[00:30:44] Other companies had always been growing, everything was going very well. and this was in 2008, so there was a financial crisis, 2007, but. when I moved to Malibu, the opposite happened, my income started shrinking, my influence over my employer, Strang, company Strang, [00:31:00] and I gradually began to lose more and I went from someone that was in growth mode to someone, that was in, no mode where, what would happen to your body exercise, that type of thing.
[00:31:11]and so you just never relax. You can never relax anything you do, because it will take the pressure off. it's going to put you in a very bad state and it's just not something, that's smart for you to do. the other day, I. I spoke to a very successful attorney, he's, surpassed all of his peers and he's fairly young.
[00:31:31]he's, I don't know, late thirties, early forties has a, a huge book of business. And now he's looking around him and he's seeing, all of his peers, the people that are older than him, like in their sixties and this from you see people that are younger.
[00:31:46]he's worked extremely hard that he sees all these people around him, that have reached a certain level. And he sees them that they give up, they're going back and they're thinking about, what they did a long time [00:32:00] ago and they're, living on that.
[00:32:01]and they're not, nothing has happened to them anymore. And that's what partners this with people that have gone in house, it's all these people. And they stopped. And so he's here. He is the pinnacle, doing extremely well. And he seen this and I thought that was so interesting because, and he's at a very good firm, but all around you, there's people that aren't fighting the war and that are giving up.
[00:32:23] And certainly, people like me, that, didn't give up or that, I did certain things give up, but didn't are pushing themselves to the extent that they could. And I was watching documentary not too long ago about, a successful celebrity. I forget what his name was.
[00:32:36] Cause maybe Chris rock, I'm not sure, but, they're assigned to him, he gets up every morning, like at five, he goes to, a personal trainer, and where they, he exercises for a couple hours because he needs to be in better shape than, his peers. He. goes to the office and he goes into an office instead of this, gray house in Hollywood Hills, we could probably have, are running an entire company.
[00:32:57]and he surrounds himself with people in [00:33:00] situations that are challenging him. he networks, all day he's driving around Los Angeles and then he gets home late at night. And this is someone that could relax. He could, take it easy, but keeps improving. and that's the game.
[00:33:13]and that's what the smartest people and the most successful people realize is that, you can never relax. And one of the things is too, is that, most law firms, especially both of them have the highest purpose partner have a lot of dead weight. this is when you look around here, this is really, what's going on in most law firms, they are trying to.
[00:33:30]there's people that are trying to pull out of their job and take as much money as they can without contributing. And then there's people that are trying to contribute and there's people that don't want to be challenged. And there's people that are, constantly, challenging themselves.
[00:33:43] And there's people that, aren't giving it a lot of value and expect to be paid and kept around based on their past accomplishments. And there's people that are this is really what the world's about. the world is about. people that are either contributing and setting higher goals and people that [00:34:00] are, that law firms and society and everything is trying to, get rid of, and that fight that you have within you to constantly achieve more is really the most important thing that you have.
[00:34:11] And I had a, interesting, conversation with, with a very successful partner at a major firm in the Midwest. The other day and it was it was interesting. so he had been a, a partner and a young partner at a major feminist, not the one I was talking about earlier and he had a big book of business he was in, a big mid Western city, I guess it doesn't really matter which one of us, but, for the city he was in, he was probably one of the top partners in the firm.
[00:34:36] he wanted her to take a personal leave, for a year. to go, help a friend, with, with his program, this friend was working on, or someone that he knew that he had the ability to do. and the firm initially, agreed to let them go. and everything was aura.
[00:34:51]the thing was is that he was young and he didn't like the fact that he had this giant book of business and there were all these kind of older partners that weren't. [00:35:00] Working and so forth in the firm. And we're really just making a lot of income off his business without billing a lot of hours and so forth.
[00:35:08] So there were people there that were contributing and setting new goals this partner, with someone, That was doing that in the people that weren't doing that. And so he tried to come back, after, his one year leave of absence, which was a mistake, he took his eye off the ball and they wouldn't let him come back and they wanted to keep this clients.
[00:35:25] But the big thing is they didn't like the fact that, he was motivating, getting all the younger partners up against the firm, in terms of their, in terms of, clients and so forth taking their clients, they're, they didn't like the fact that he was challenging them for being dead weight.
[00:35:40] And so there's all sorts of people around you that are going to be dead. there's dead weight and every law firm there segway and every company, but those are the people that don't succeed and have problems. And anyway, but he, actually is in the process of suing this firm, and trying to get his job back, probably not a good idea to Sue a major law firm to mangers, to.
[00:35:57]but that's kinda what's going on with that. and, he wanted [00:36:00] to take time off and, the apartments that I wanted to keep his business. I hope it's been helpful. I'm going to answer sure. a lot of questions today as well. any questions you guys have in a group?
[00:36:08] You guys have a lot of questions, the big thing is that everywhere you go. you're going to find people, that, want to relax and stop by me and you may do the same thing. And those are the people that when you're in power and when you're in control, or if you're in control that, you will want to push out and you can never stop fighting.
[00:36:26]the fight you have, like my mother said, this crazy episode, which maybe happened. So I would remember it, maybe SOC could tell it to you is all you have. your passion is one of the most important things and that's what makes everything in your career happen. And every time you do something well and you advance, whether it's getting into a good firm or it's getting new, a new job, it's an opportunity to try harder and to get better.
[00:36:52] And. You become a better person. one thing that, that I teach, this, if you're ever looking for a job or you're looking for a job right now, [00:37:00] one of the most important lessons that you can learn, about looking for a job and job search is, you may ask what type of person do most employers want to hire?
[00:37:09] And the type of person, most employers modifier is someone that's trying to improve. So it's actually, if you're moving from a small firm to a bigger firm, law firms are a medium sized firm to a big firm. you're a lot of cases, excuse me, you may not believe this, but, what happens in a lot of cases is, excuse me, law firms want to hire, you don't want to get in there.
[00:37:32] And Janice here, I've been talking to some seven this morning. But law firms want to hire people that are hungry and that want to improve, and that have that energy. and that's more important than a lot of cases then, you just moving over from one large firm to another large firm is not necessarily the most attractive, what's attractive is someone that's moved up.
[00:37:52] And so you may start at a smaller firm condo, medium firm that a bigger firm, because that passion support is really. the most [00:38:00] important thing that you have, your ability to be passionate and to, really give everything that you have, and is what is important. And one thing that happens to a lot of attorneys, as they get older, you start out a lot of times, they'll start on a, a large law firm and they'll become jaded and they'll lose their passion.
[00:38:16] So you may have heard, I'm sure you have that, associates with three to five years of experience are the most attractive. to law firms. And then after that, the people that have business for the most attractive, and the reason that people that are, less senior are attractive, just because they typically will have this passion and enthusiasm for the work for getting ahead.
[00:38:36] And a lot of times people that get older may conclude that they don't have the passion in what happens so that passion, if you can communicate that, and even if you're older, is really the most important thing. law firms. Want to hire people. And most employers want to hire people that are trying to move up, like anytime you're training and you improve rather than shrink back.
[00:38:56] And, if you just think about it, like the idea of moving up, it [00:39:00] means that, you're trying to improve yourself because you're hungry and you want to get ahead. And they liked that because they can challenge added up. They can put that into hours. That means you're going to learn how to learn more.
[00:39:11] You're going to play the game and they don't like it when you're retreating. If you're retreating and trying to move to smaller firms, it's okay. But you may, if you're trying to get different types of experience that get trials and so forth and everything needs to look like you're, you're growing personally and almost all the placements that I make, as a recruiter, are, by being able to position people as someone who's trying to improve.
[00:39:34]and if you can do that, you can literally start out if you keep your fighting, you, it doesn't matter where you went to law school. None of this stuff matters. What matters is where you end up and you can certainly end up, at really good firms many people, want to feel successful.
[00:39:48]you'll go to a good college or law school and you want to, your ego will say, I've done it. I'm successful. I did this achievement and you'll stop or you all, you're, you'll get a job. You'll say I'm successful now. And you'll [00:40:00] stop. this is just not how the world works. you have to continually keep trying and you have to continually keep fighting and you can never stop.
[00:40:09] And the second you stop, the world will eat you alive. in terms of my house in Malibu, it got to be too expensive for me and I had to get rid of it and move. and that's the kind of thing, that happens to people that, don't keep fighting or like my friend who became a partner and became, now he's a solo practitioner fighting to try to get work and divorced and, went from being a partner in a major firm where his kids were very proud of him and.
[00:40:35]they were all going to private school to now not being able to even afford to send his kids to college. this is serious stuff. you cannot, let the world, take advantage of Leo and you cannot get rid of your fight. and it's really, all you have. there's nothing more important.
[00:40:50]then that's fine. So I'm going to take a quick break for a minute, a couple of minutes. And then when I come back, please ask as many questions as you can. I've got all the time in the world. [00:41:00] I'm going to answer, every question you guys have today some people have chatted questions to just try to do it in the Q and a, I will be back in about two minutes.
[00:41:10]Okay, so I'm going to go to questions. Let's see here real quickly. give me one question, and you see here, Kevin got them. Okay. So let's see here questions. Okay, will this protestation be available for later review? yes. the, all the presentations, after they've happened, go up on, or.com and so you can always see those.
[00:41:34] And then, if you were on the webinar, I do think we will start, we are going to be sending out for people that signed up, a replay of it, if you do want to watch it. So yes. What happened. Okay. The next question is any suggestions and just ask as many questions as you have.
[00:41:48] Cause I'm, answering all these, live and they're anonymous. So that's 90, don't worry, that you'll show up or anything like that, or I'll say your name, any suggestions for an attorney who wants to transition from government practice to private practice. [00:42:00] that practice or that question depends on, what type of work you're doing, in private practice.
[00:42:05]in government, it really depends. I don't know what type of work you're doing. but if you're doing litigation, you can easily transition, back into private practice job. it's typically difficult to transition from, unless you're in the us attorney's office to, to large firms, but, litigation, you can transition back into, it really depends on your practice area.
[00:42:25] So I'm not, I don't know what that is, but. the more, focused your practice here is, the better, the easier it is. and typically, it is law firms do prefer people that are coming directly from law firms when you're transitioning them. if you're coming directly from a law firm, it is going to be, easier typically for you to.
[00:42:43]get back into a, into work to another law firm or if you'd have law firm experience. So sometimes you may need to start out at a smaller firm, but the benefit of starting on a smaller firm though, is, once you learn the ropes and you start bringing the business and that sort of thing, it really is [00:43:00] not that difficult to transition back to, to move up to different size firms later on.
[00:43:05]Government attorneys can always transition into private practice and it's not that difficult. but it also depends on your seniority. So you may need to work at a smaller firm or, depending on your seniority level. Okay. Let's see here. Now, the next question is I am a staff attorney, and my firm really promotes that fraternities to associates am always trying to challenge myself to do more work and take on more responsibility.
[00:43:28] But they, have not acknowledged it nor have they discussed any opportunities for growth. I think the best move is to lateral, to another firm as an associate. What do you think? there's a couple of different points. if you work really hard and you do really good work, there is a possibility, that they can, that you may be able to, transition to being, like a regular associate in our firm.
[00:43:51]one thing that happens a lot of times with, attorneys that are trying to, transition is, the law firms have these rules where a certain types of [00:44:00] people, like maybe a contract attorney or staff attorney, cannot be made associates and they may, they may just have certain rules for that.
[00:44:07] And like some firms take the majority of the people out of their summer program. and other law firms just don't want to open that door. I believe that, if you really believe that's a hard and fast rule, you should look around and you should try to find out, get information of whether or not the firm has ever promoted staff attorneys.
[00:44:23] And if they have from one staff attorney, then that means you have a chair. The other thing I would recommend as a staff attorney is if you can, try to find a powerful partner to work with, meaning someone that has a lot of business and try to get most of your work for them, because they are the ones that have the power to make you, a PA like, an attorney, like a full-time attorney.
[00:44:45]so those are the people, that I would try to get close to, partners who have business law firms typically. listened to, so those are the same kind of people that commit to partners that later made an associates. So I would try to, do whatever you can to, work with, [00:45:00] the most powerful partners, I would get information about whether or not they're most opportunities, and go from there.
[00:45:05]so the other thing too is on your resume, how do you distinguish between being a staff or train attorney? I would just put attorney a lot of times you don't need to essentially put up staff attorney, or you can just put the name of the firm and not your title sometimes in your resume.
[00:45:19]and the work you're doing, you typically do not want to draw a lot of attention to it, because it may look like, you couldn't get a regular job or something like that, which is not a big deal. there's reasons for people to be staff attorneys, they may want more flexibility in their hours and maybe raising children, there's all sorts of reasons, but.
[00:45:35]I would do that. And I think this is a very good question, by the way. if there aren't opportunities for growth though, as a staff attorney, then what I would recommend doing is, doing whatever you can to, try to find a regular job. there's some very bad staff attorney jobs out there, and there's jobs where, you may be working for one third to one fourth of what you'd be paid in a law firm.
[00:45:54]as an associate and not working hours that are much different. I would try to, the best [00:46:00] thing you can do is try to get a job, in your own firm. But if you can't then transition and I see this question all the time there was lots of people, that have this issue that you're talking about.
[00:46:11]and, frankly are qualified to move. but you have to look at it from the law firm's point of view, as a staff attorney, they want to provide, lower billing rates for their clients. and then they also want to pay you less. And you have to look at who's got the incentive to make you an associate and it is difficult and they have always will have document review and, other types of work that you can do, that they, want staff attorneys to do and then need them before.
[00:46:34]but thank you for that question. That's a great question. Okay. let's see. So there's apply this to micro level, such as vacations. My first 15 years, as a lawyer, litigator, I never took a vacation. Finally was forced to take a vacation about my spouse. And from that fell, it sent me back to work. I had to work twice as hard, leading up to vacation and three times as part upon return.
[00:46:56] Never got a lot of risking burnout. [00:47:00] Wow comment. Okay. I've certainly heard of people not taking vacations for a long time, and I'll tell you one quick story. As I, I went on vacation once when I was practicing in my firm I had, I don't know what they're called a mentor, like an older partner attorney that was supposed to mentor a mentor.
[00:47:16] Yeah. The day I was going on vacation. He called me at home and said that he was, he and everyone were wishing me a nice vacation. And I thought that was funny. and it was almost like a comment, that you'd read, shouldn't take a vacation. It's been a, certainly he hadn't taken a vacation.
[00:47:31] So that's one thing I don't like about the practice of law. And a lot of law firms is, people not being able to take vacations. I think, vacation, is extremely important. I don't know. Y could have set you back so long, but I just don't think it's healthy for you to work 15 years without a vacation.
[00:47:49] I think you need to get perspective and get out of here and you can get out of what you're doing. I know this is about setting goals thing, but, I think 15 years is way too long, without taking a vacation. [00:48:00] I think that, if you can, you really need to, take vacations.
[00:48:03] I just don't think that's a good idea. I think, you may want to think about, maybe, that, why are you working so hard? it would be a question. and do you need to work so hard at your farm? Because I don't know that 15 years without taking a vacation or kind of enjoying things with your spouse is worth it.
[00:48:21]I think that, you need to figure out ways to have other people, that you can trust for your work and your clients would be my advice. But, I'm certainly admire that work ethic. I know it's amazing, but, okay. Let's see. How would you explain to the partner you work for that you plan to accept an internal offer at another firm?
[00:48:38]Large law firm, 140 attorneys in California. I don't know what an internal offer means. Another Oh, another office of the same firm. I don't know how you would explain that. if you're, typically anytime you're leaving, to go to another firm or work at another office in your firm, you want to be as gracious as possible to the person, that you, worked for, and [00:49:00] if it's, and you want to leave the door open for coming back, something that, I remember, when I worked for, worked at a law firm, Quinn Emanuel when I was young and there was a partner there named Walter founder.
[00:49:10] John Quinn is a fairly famous attorney. He said that the thing he, Richard regretted the most in his career was, not, being nicer to people on the way up or more gracious. and I think that, that the better you are to people when you're leaving. nicer, you are on the better.
[00:49:26] and then, of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my legal career was I left a firm. And when they asked me why I was leaving, there was a partner that I couldn't didn't like, and I told them I was leaving for more prestige and more money. and it was significantly more money and that was not a nice thing to say.
[00:49:41] And then at one point I wanted to come back to the firm, they actually set up to come back and then this partner told a bunch of people what I had said. it upset everyone. it's just not a good idea to burn bridges. And so that's my advice about how to, talk to people if you're leaving and that sort of thing is too.
[00:49:57]be as nice as you possibly can. okay. Let's [00:50:00] see. my best conclusion to fire up my question is I've been an attorney who achieved similar to your example, much more than their peers. My problem is that hiring companies failed. I'm too young for assistance associated with the company for so long.
[00:50:14] Plus you're all age 50. Let me see here. okay. That's true. What that question means. So if you could re type it, I'll answer it right now. but I don't know. I'm assuming that you're saying, you're too young. Maybe they think you're too young and don't have enough experience. certainly there are companies that will think that way.
[00:50:30]and I assume